M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Are you really trashing Jack Nicklaus? I fear the last 10 years have been so hard on you that your mind has snapped.

I've got Brady Hoke, Kirk Ferentz, Jack Nicklaus, and many others lining up to defend Tressel's character. Who do you have lined up to call him a slimeball?

[geo weidl]

Who do you have lined up to call him a slimeball?

You got to be kidding, o-lie-o is the laughing stock of the cfb nation right now, enjoy.

[The Oracle]

Are you really trashing Jack Nicklaus? I fear the last 10 years have been so hard on you that your mind has snapped.

I've got Brady Hoke, Kirk Ferentz, Jack Nicklaus, and many others lining up to defend Tressel's character. Who do you have lined up to call him a slimeball?

We have fucking facts you dumbass.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Who do you have lined up to call him a slimeball?

You got to be kidding, o-lie-o is the laughing stock of the cfb nation right now, enjoy.

So you should have an easy A-list of the coaching world ready to trash him. Let's have it.

BTW, no hiatus for me. No echo chamber for you boys.

[JRB]

Doesn't seem like it's your style to get worked up about it in the way that I might, but I have an overactive sense of justice and love nothing more than to see power-corrupts-absolutely people meet an appropriate outcome, particularly when the person in question was clearly intending to be corrupt and in this case even relishing the opportunity.

Oh, I'm following the shenanigans in Columbus as closely as anybody here, I guess. But my interest, I suppose, has a tinge more of sorrow than of anger. Someone mentioned earlier that the last ten years has been rendered meaningless. I'm not sure that's entirely true(at least, not yet), but if it is, that's a terribly sad thing for college football, and for these two schools. The Tressel regime was tough on Michigan, but until recently, at least Michigan had the knowledge it had been beaten by superior teams it could respect. Imagine being a player on the 2006 team now, knowing you'd been beaten by three points in the biggest game in the history of the rivalry and been denied a shot at a national title by a team that possibly had multiple guys who shouldn't have been on the field. It'd make you sick to your stomach, wondering what could have been if the playing field had been level. I imagine Ohio State basketball players who lost in the 1992 NCAA regional finals to the Fab Five feel the same way. It may comfort fans to discredit Ohio State's decade of dominance in this rivalry and over the Big Ten, but whatever accomplishments Ohio State has to vacate aren't going to be retroactively conferred on someone else. That's why cheating sucks-- ultimately, it renders competitions, and our memories of them, meaningless.

On a personal level, I want to see Ohio State get beaten every time they take the field. I make no apologies for that. I frequently joke about wishing death and destruction upon the school, its football team, its alumni, its dumbass mascot, and just about anyone having anything to do with that school who has not renounced his unfortunate allegiance(with the exception of Chris Spielman-- I'm allowed one exception). But I also know that I've made plenty of mistakes in life, and a few of them were dishonest mistakes, so I can't condemn Jim Tressel as harshly as other people perhaps can. I can appreciate the reasons they feel the way they do, and I can't say that those people are wrong. I don't know that violating NCAA rules, or even lying about NCAA rules violations, makes you a sociopath, but those sorts of diagnoses are beyond my competence. Whatever Jim Tressel's psychological condition, he's been a tremendously successful football coach who just threw away his career, permanently stained his own legacy, and has done lasting damage to a college football powerhouse in a suicidally misguided attempt to protect his players and his chances at a national championship in 2010. The Michigan fan in me is glad he's gone, because of his success and because, as a result of his ethical failures, he deserves to go. The college football fan in me, though, hates to see anyone go like this.

[Hannibal]

In the end, I only care about the quality of the Big Ten to the extent that it affects the perception of Michigan in the event that we need voters. I could care less otherwise. Which is why it wouldn't bother me if OSU is down for a decade. Other programs might gain, but Michigan definitely stands to gain the most. Followed by Penn State. We compete with them head-to-head in recruiting and need to win those battles more than anybody.

[lineygoblue]

JRB makes a good analogy when he refers to the 2006 game and how the outcome would have been affected if ohio didn't have Troy Smith on the field, and compares it with the 1992 Fab Five game with Ohio State. The reason that these issues must be dealt with is very simple. You want a rivalry like this to be played on a level playing field. Put both teams out there, nobody with an unfair advantage, and let them play. Let the result be the result that should have happened.

I've got Brady Hoke, Kirk Ferentz, Jack Nicklaus, and many others lining up to defend Tressel's character.

No, .. you don't.

[hack]

I just don't get the suggestion that Tressel shouldn't go ``like this''. This is exactly how he should go -- in a hailstorm of ignominy. If not -- if you can conduct yourself in that way systematically and not suffer a disgraceful exit -- than that is only the type of encouragement others need to further weaken the integrity of the sport. Caring about the sport = demanding that heads roll when they should.

[Hannibal]

No coach is going to attack Tressel on the record. They have no incentive for doing so. Ditto for a lot of TV talking heads.

[hack]

You want a rivalry like this to be played on a level playing field.

Yes exactly. My concern is that it won't be a rivalry ``like this'' anymore if OSU gets punished to the extent that seems to be deserved. It's already been two decades of dominance. You can't have a rivalry in which teams take turns destroying each other for long periods. The best rivalries are the ones where nobody puts together a long streak. If OSU is headed for a lost decade, it will create an exceptionally long period in which The Game doesn't live up to its reputation. The Game is a part of what makes both programs special.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Said here I was done writing about this. Told Sean I was sick of osu/tressel ….. but the fun just keeps coming, so:

osu fans are delusional if they think they are going to snag a high flying HC. Not going to happen. Big time sanctions and scholarship reductions are coming; nobody with a decent resume is going to want to deal with that or the expectations of dirty boosters (lots of them) and the fan base (delusional and with unwarranted expectations for osu to be able to move on).

Moreover, osu is going to take a long term hit in recruiting. Saban left MSU precisely because he felt he could not compete against ND, Michigan, PSU and osu. osu is going to find itself in the same place when it comes to attracting a quality HC for a few years. They will recover because their recruiting base is strong but they are going to take a recruiting hit for the short term right when they don’t need it.

Speaking of dirty boosters …… its my view that there are lot of them hanging around the osu program and that was and will continue to be a big problem for osu. Many think Gene Chizik was hired at Auburn because he’d keep his hands off the reach of the multitude of dirty boosters hanging around that program. 6-2, two-fitty, Cam Newton was bought and paid for and turned out winning big for the new boy on the block. Boosters are happy and Cam got his butt out of town before the NCAA could hammer him like they are going to hammer osu’s tp. osu may go this route hiring a low profile malleable HC and if they do, look at that as proof that people outside the university are actually running osu’s football program. Based on what we have seen so far with gee and smith and the appearance that they are just clueless, does anyone actually think this is not what is going on in c-bus?

Posters with some cred that I‘m reading seem to think the car deal is not going to amount to much because the NCAA won’t be able to prove anything. However, in counterpoint it was offered that the NCAA doesn’t need proof in a legal sense. They can just say, “you should have known,” and osu definitely should have known. Given that, the dreaded LOIC or not fostering an environment conducive to compliance can be levied. It has been discussed that osu’s scheduled COI in August has been moved forward to October so that the NCAA (and osu for a second time since they found nothing the first time …. heh, heh) can look at Dohrmann’s allegations.

What does worry osu people is the equipment thing (more amo for LOIC and big pressure on gee to do something or resign himself) and alleged player/drug connections to Rife. The question that is most likely to come up with drugs ….. how much were players actually buying? If it’s more than a single use amount, they’re selling it. That concern is not beyond the reach of the Feds who will go back to players no longer with the program and that will bring damaging testimony from plea bargains unfavorable to the long term health of osu’s football program.

So, yeah …… osu is f’ed; something I enjoy and don’t give a damn how long it lasts. It’s not going to hurt the conference. Why? Because programs deserving will rise ….. osu can fall to the level of the Gofers and the Hoosers or below (a distinct possibility) as far as I’m concerned and stay there. If you asked me today, I’d say Nebraska is going to come in and do well unlike PSU’s experience and until Michigan gets repaired following the Rodriguez debacle, Wisconsin, PSU and maybe Iowa will do well (MSU, sorry they will soon be relegated to their proper position as M’s bitch) …. But in the end, I will guarantee you M will rise and if things work out like I expect them to, be back winning conference titles on a regular basis.

Do I care about The Game. Actually I don’t. It’s not what it used to be after a decade of suck, part of it on Michigan because they weren’t competitive but now it’s future value in doubt because of jim tressel’s corruption and the corruption of it’s future worth by present players like terrell pryor who would rather sell items associated with M v. osu that should have meant a lot but turned out meant nothing to him ….. have a feeling there may be ten years worth of players at osu who treat the M/osu rivalry pretty much like that and ask, “what’s in it for me.” There are not a lot of Chris Speilman’s, among others of the past, who value that tradition. Frankly, I’d rather see M develop a strong rivalry with Nebraska and being that program is in M’s division that may work-out.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think Jason is right that it's not necessarily going to be Michigan that benefits most if we suddenly can't recruit worth a damn. A lot of national program poach Ohio kids too. I know USC fans were excited because they were lusting over that OL from St. Ed's that I posted about yesterday or the day before.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Said here I was done writing about this. Told Sean I was sick of osu/tressel ?.. but the fun just keeps coming, so:

osu fans are delusional if they think they are going to snag a high flying HC. Not going to happen. Big time sanctions and scholarship reductions are coming; nobody with a decent resume is going to want to deal with that or the expectations of dirty boosters (lots of them) and the fan base (delusional and with unwarranted expectations for osu to be able to move on).

Moreover, osu is going to take a long term hit in recruiting. Saban left MSU precisely because he felt he could not compete against ND, Michigan, PSU and osu. osu is going to find itself in the same place when it comes to attracting a quality HC for a few years. They will recover because their recruiting base is strong but they are going to take a recruiting hit for the short term right when they don?t need it.

Speaking of dirty boosters ?? its my view that there are lot of them hanging around the osu program and that was and will continue to be a big problem for osu. Many think Gene Chizik was hired at Auburn because he?d keep his hands off the reach of the multitude of dirty boosters hanging around that program. 6-2, two-fitty, Cam Newton was bought and paid for and turned out winning big for the new boy on the block. Boosters are happy and Cam got his butt out of town before the NCAA could hammer him like they are going to hammer osu?s tp. osu may go this route hiring a low profile malleable HC and if they do, look at that as proof that people outside the university are actually running osu?s football program. Based on what we have seen so far with gee and smith and the appearance that they are just clueless, does anyone actually think this is not what is going on in c-bus?

Posters with some cred that I?m reading seem to think the car deal is not going to amount to much because the NCAA won?t be able to prove anything. However, in counterpoint it was offered that the NCAA doesn?t need proof in a legal sense. They can just say, ?you should have known,? and osu definitely should have known. Given that, the dreaded LOIC or not fostering an environment conducive to compliance can be levied. It has been discussed that osu?s scheduled COI in August has been moved forward to October so that the NCAA (and osu for a second time since they found nothing the first time ?. heh, heh) can look at Dohrmann?s allegations.

What does worry osu people is the equipment thing (more amo for LOIC and big pressure on gee to do something or resign himself) and alleged player/drug connections to Rife. The question that is most likely to come up with drugs ?.. how much were players actually buying? If it?s more than a single use amount, they?re selling it. That concern is not beyond the reach of the Feds who will go back to players no longer with the program and that will bring damaging testimony from plea bargains unfavorable to the long term health of osu?s football program.

So, yeah ?? osu is f?ed; something I enjoy and don?t give a damn how long it lasts. It?s not going to hurt the conference. Why? Because programs deserving will rise ?.. osu can fall to the level of the Gofers and the Hoosers or below (a distinct possibility) as far as I?m concerned and stay there. If you asked me today, I?d say Nebraska is going to come in and do well unlike PSU?s experience and until Michigan gets repaired following the Rodriguez debacle, Wisconsin, PSU and maybe Iowa will do well (MSU, sorry they will soon be relegated to their proper position as M?s bitch) ?. But in the end, I will guarantee you M will rise and if things work out like I expect them to, be back winning conference titles on a regular basis.

Do I care about The Game. Actually I don?t. It?s not what it used to be after a decade of suck, part of it on Michigan because they weren?t competitive but now it?s future value in doubt because of jim tressel?s corruption and the corruption of it?s future worth by present players like terrell pryor who would rather sell items associated with M v. osu that should have meant a lot but turned out meant nothing to him ?.. have a feeling there are may be ten years of worth of players at osu who treat the M/osu rivalry pretty much like that and ask, ?what?s in it for me.? There are not a lot of Chris Speilman?s, among others of the past, who value that tradition. Frankly, I?d rather see M develop a strong rivalry with Nebraska and being that program is in M?s division that may work-out.

LOL...Michigan loses 9 out of 10 and suddenly you don't care about the Game much anymore. Ah Jeff, Jeff...

[hack]

I care a ton about The Game. It's a part of what makes our program special, and same goes for OSU. And I think that a lot of the kids really care too.

[entropy]

I don't believe OSU will have the sanctions some here are hoping for..