M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Jamie H]

Well the guy who knows more about the current scandal than anyone on the planet has declared that OSU isn't nearly as bad as USC or Minnesota. So you either take his very knowledgable opinion or you can trust your own desperate-to-see-OSU-taken-down gut.

He also said that this is about as clear a case of "lack of institutional control" that you could have.

So do you still "trust" him so much? Or do you only "trust" him when he says things you like?

[JRB]

In a way, what brought down Jim Tressel was the same thing that brought down Woody Hayes-- an intense pride in his ability as a competitor that over time became a sense of imperious entitlement. It's often difficult for us to wrap our minds around the idea that a person can achieve greatly in many aspects of life and fail spectacularly in others. We want people, and especially our sportsmen, to be either heroes or villains, and we sometimes have a hard time accepting that a flaw or misdeed doesn't necessarily erase every good thing an athlete or coach has accomplished.

The Greeks have a word for the crucial element in tragedy: hamartia. It's an exquisitely imprecise word. It can be translated as "an honest mistake," the sort of error of commission we make when we don't know everything we need to know before taking an action, or as "a failure of choice," the sort of self-destructive error we make when we ignore the better angels of our nature. Those who would still defend Tressel's conduct in this matter would argue his initial mistake was born out of the honest desire to protect his players, while those of us less inclined to believe him found his initial failure to disclose the e-mails bizarre and his subsequent behavior mind-bogglingly stupid. At any number of points, Tressel could have pulled his head out of the noose. He stubbornly insisted on staying his course, because that's what he always did, when staying the course meant hanging himself. It's both a pity and a wonder, in that it shows us how maddeningly simple it is even for those of us in the most advantageous circumstances to fail to be the people we mean to be.

Woody Hayes was fired because his competitiveness frequently manifested as intimidating rage, and he finally lost control of it. Jim Tressel went down with the ship because his competitiveness manifested as calm, almost obsessive self-control, and he insisted on his ability to control his program even as it became obvious that he'd never had as much control as he'd thought. Each man was such a success that he forgot that he answered to somebody, and by the time he remembered, it was too late.

[Rocky Bleier]

SAMCRO approves Rock..

Nice catch, SLF. Thatt was a pretty disturbing scene.

[hack]

I'm not sure it needs to be so complex. The cheating goes back to YSU, so therefore it goes back to when he was 34 years old. He's 58 now. And, it's not like he's doing the occasional impulsive rape-the-maid things -- this is planned, systematic and comprehensive. And furthermore he spends a significant portion of his time portraying himself as the opposite of what he really is. There is simply no evidence available to conclude that Jim Tressel failed to be the person he meant to be. Every single data point shows that he was exactly the person he meant to be.

[Hannibal]

I'm not sure it needs to be so complex. The cheating goes back to YSU, so therefore it goes back to when he was 34 years old. He's 58 now. And, it's not like he's doing the occasional impulsive rape-the-maid things -- this is planned, systematic and comprehensive. And furthermore he spends a significant portion of his time portraying himself as the opposite of what he really is. There is simply no evidence available to conclude that Jim Tressel failed to be the person he meant to be. Every single data point shows that he was exactly the person he meant to be.

EFZ. He's a sociopath/con artist.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Minnesota involved wide-scale academic fraud being under the guidance of the coaching staff itself. I don't see how this could possibly rise to that level of complicity short of Tressel giving Terrelle rides to the dealership where he picked up his free car

Actually, there are quite a few parallels if you can connect the dots ......

Fraud is the operative word here. The fraud at osu didn't have much to do with academics although no one can be sure it didn't at this point.

Lots of evidence that people who should have been paying attention weren't. The equipment managers, all the assistant coaches and grad assistants, etc. ...... there are 85 scholarship football players and probably 100 or more bodies in the athletic department to keep track of these yahoos at osu. They didn't. LOIC at its best.

I've seen several posters from other colleges who really have no ax to grind with osu be astounded by what was revealed in the Dohrmann piece about selling osu equipment for other things of value declaring, "I played (or worked) for ...... there is no way that could have happened where I was without someone knowing about it ......

So, the second operative word here is WIDESPREAD NEGLIGENCE

WIDESPREAD FRAUD and NEGLIGENCE, DSL, makes this a lot like the Minnesota B-Ball scandal.

[Rocky Bleier]

Dohrman -

He believes that Pryor traded, “more than 20 items, including game-worn shoulder pads, multiple helmets, Nike cleats, jerseys, game pants and more” for tattoos or cash. This, Dohrmann argues, should prove OSU was aware (or should have been aware) of what was going on. How could they not notice how much equipment was going missing?

[DennisT]

EFZ. He's a sociopath/con artist.

Sanctimonious prick are the words I'd use.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I don't know that there is evidence that Tressel facilitated anything. He turned a blind eye absolutely and covered up the lapses. OSU obviously failed to monitor.

But it looks to me like most of the bad bad stuff was done by players acting alone.

[DennisT]

From the SI story, bible study in the morning, raffle rigging in the afternoon, told me all I needed to know.

[Hannibal]

I don't see how this could possibly rise to that level of complicity short of Tressel giving Terrelle rides to the dealership where he picked up his free car

How was that level of complicity present in the USC case? Or the Michigan basketball case?

And for the record, more than one source has said that Tressel introduced some players (Ray Isaac and Maurice Clarett) to the shady boosters that gave them cash. That's not looking the other way. That's outright facilitation. Maurice Clarett claimed academic fraud, and his story was corroborated by at least one other individual. And Terrelle Pryor is starting to make Reggie Bush look like a piker. That's on top of Tressel lying to the NCAA on his compliance form, the raffle rigging, OSU's complete lack of self-punishment or punishment of Tressel (originally), and the gross lack of institutional control described in the SI article.

[geo weidl]

If you look at the qb at youngstown and then mc, they were always directed by saint jim to a person(s) who would help them with a job, cash, car...

[Jamie H]

I don't think he's a sociopath. I think Dennis' "sanctimonious prick" tag is more apt. He thought he was above the rules, and that as long as he followed the rules that HE thought were important, then everything else was fine.

It is worse than him not knowing about the kids violation rules. He didn't care. He didn't care that they had broken rules and made that clear when he completly ignored the warning email. Whether or not he was involved in setting up anything was irrelevant to him losing his job, because as soon as you have a coach that shows he doesn't care that his kids are breaking the rules, you've got big-time problems.

[hack]

Look at that line he used in the initial email to Ciciero -- ``geez, when are these kids ever gonna learn? I guess I'll go ride herd on them until they grow up...'', or somesuch. I don't think sociopath is too much of a charge. He sold himself to parents as a mentor and a role model, and once he got what he wanted from them he showed their children how to work their way through a corrupt system he allowed to be built. Just because he let informal subordinates build that system doesn't let him off the hook -- it simply makes him a smart cheater and not a dumb one. If sociopath is a bit clinical or precise, perhaps we could all agree on, say, slimeball or massive hypocrite?

Then again, ``senator'' kinda fits too!

[Hannibal]

He is a sociopath because he has absolutely zero conscience, no empathy, and no regard for the rules. That is why it is so easy for him to put on a public face that is 100% different from what he really is, and why it was so easy to throw the Tat 5 under the bus before it became public knowledge that he lied to the NCAA about it. It takes an accomplished pathological liar to cheat like Tressel and then author books about being a good Christian and winning the right way.