Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Optimus Prime]

Jeff, all I'm doing is using statistics. If the murder rates, crime rates, and illegal drug use rates have all dropped significantly since the late 70's (and they have), why are you or other continuing to insist that the US is on the verge of becoming a Mad Max society?

DSL, not sure what's the color of the sky in your world, the US is one of the most violent and dangerous countries in world, period. Although there has been a nominal drop over the last 30 years in the US, the numbers gun murders and violence are simply off the Richter Scale when compared to other civilized countries with stable government.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg

Chart: The U.S. has far more gun-related killings than any other developed country
One piece of this puzzle is the national rate of firearm-related murders, which is charted above. The United States has by far the highest per capita rate of all developed countries. According to data compiled by the United Nations, the United States has four times as many gun-related homicides per capita as do Turkey and Switzerland, which are tied for third. The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country.
The above chart measures data for the nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which includes all Western countries plus Turkey, Israel, Chile, Japan, and South Korea. I did not include Mexico, which has about triple the U.S. rate due in large part to the ongoing drug war.
The rate in several developing countries, particularly in Latin America, is significantly higher. Honduras, which has been called the murder capital of the world, has an average firearm murder rate that’s about 20 times America’s. But make no mistake: For a rich, developed country, the U.S. gun-related homicide rate is very, very high.

Chart: The U.S. has far more gun-rel...eloped country

In comparison, Japan, a nation of 130 million people had 47 gun murders, Canada had 144 in nation of 37 million. There are 10-12 thousand gun murders per year in the US over the last 20 years and as reported by Fox News, "Over 1,057,000 people have been killed by guns in the USA since John Lennon was shot and killed on 8 Dec 1980." That's 31,537 people are killed by guns in the USA every year, deaths in general, gun-related.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/22/obama-campaign-arm-retweets-yoko-ono-photo-lennon-bloody-glas/ses

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/chart-the-u-s-has-far-more-gun-related-killings-than-any-other-developed-country/

[Dr. Strangelove]

Murder rates haven't dipped only a small amount, it's been pretty significant over the past 30 years. And I'm not sure that chart helps the argument that even more guns are needed when all the countries with low gun violence have the toughest anti-gun laws.

Bottom line is to repeat myself again...a gun owner is more likely to use his gun against a family member, or accidentally shoot someone, or commit suicide with it than he is to fire it in defense of his home/family. Those are just facts.

I don't want to imply that gun owners are wackos, but such weapons aren't for everybody. In fact, I'd suggest only a minority of folks are genuinely responsible enough to own one. Most murders or suicides are done on a sudden impulse, a heat-of-the-moment thing. A gun is a powerful temptation when someone is not in their right mind, much more so than a knife or a baseball bat. A gun doesn't require physical strength and you can be more psychologically detached from the act.

Everyone should consider the odds of BOTH things happening; a random mugging on the mean streets of Grosse Pointe versus someone picking up the Winchester when he's had a bit too much to drink and something awful happening.

[Tony G]

As for drug violence, let's legalize drugs.

Heroin? Cocaine? LSD? Peyote? Meth?

[Optimus Prime]

There are over 300 million guns in America today according to the FBI. The United States' industrial military complex sells more guns domestically and abroad than any other nation on earth. The US is the largest military arms dealer in the world, it's huge business and that fire probably will never be extinguished.

I too have never suggested more guns are the answer but handgun in a properly trained and licensed hand is a life saver and I am truly greatly for that legislative right.

As I've said before, I came to Handgun Jesus so to speak after nearly being taken hostage and robbed of cash, watch and car, 5 years ago. The poor guy they actually grabbed, died as police pursued the getaway car. 5 masked Haitians, shotguns, high on meth on a month long murder/robbery spree of Florida businesses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/world/middleeast/us-foreign-arms-sales-reach-66-3-billion-in-2011.html?_r=0

[Mike]

People just need to keep in mind that guns are like hot chicks and Corvettes: They are a lot of fun but can be very dangerous.

[Optimus Prime]

I'd add fireworks and liquor to that list too.

[Mike]

Two of my favorites!

[Chuck Mallory]

Wow, scary incident OP.

Myself I own quite a bit of firearms, no handguns however, mine are used for hunting, also to protect this house if need be!

[Jeff Buchanan]

I can see the two sides of the debate regarding owning and using a hand gun for self defense. Both sides of that debate have merit.

However, as I pointed out above, the danger to our society regarding bad outcomes from hand gun ownership for self defense is small in comparison to the bad outcomes associated with criminal acts committed with hand guns.

I see the debate over hand guns for self defense as nearly irrelevant in comparison to the debate involved with the larger issues surrounding gun access and gun use and how these two factors can be affected in a way that reduces gun violence in the US overall. The comparative statistics - those showing bad outcomes from gun ownership/use for self defense v. those showing bad outcomes from gun use in the commission of a criminal act - do not support the notion that the ownership and use of a handgun for self defense should be the focal point in the debate about gun violence in the US.

[Mackenzie]

tax the hell out of pot... might be time to say we were wrong on criminalizing it.

Some sense to that. Is it possible though that if you tax it too much you will just create a black market or illegal trade for those willing to sell it for the same price minus the tax?

[Mackenzie]

Re: "Bad outcomes from gun ownership/use for self defense...." I am not a gun owner but have thought of purchasing and learning to use something for "home defense" exclusively. I would not carry outside the premises. Has anyone come across any statistics relative to the bad outcome scenerio that distinguishes in home vs outside the home outcomes particularly if the "suicide" outcome were parcelled out?

[Hannibal]

IMHO talk about handguns is a waste of time, because banning the ownership of handguns isn't on the table. It's basically a strawman. America, for the most part, has accepted that people have a right to use deadly force to defend themselves and their families from criminals. What is on the table is the banning or control of weapons that are more military in nature. This is a different debate. Most people don't see any legitimate need for these types of weapons, because law-abiding citizens in America have never needed them. This calls to question whether ordinary citizens should be allowed to arm themselves against the government. It's not a question that should be ignored. In the 20th Century, a staggering number of people were murdered by their own governments, and the looming debt crises in the first world are going to reach a point someday where the problem can no longer be kicked down the road. We have already seen this happen in Greece and Cyprus. I don't have high hopes that the problem is going to resolve itself peacefully here in America.

[hack]

Those AR-40whatevers can hit drones? Seriously though, I don't get what you're saying here:

In the 20th Century, a staggering number of people were murdered by their own governments, and the looming debt crises in the first world are going to reach a point someday where the problem can no longer be kicked down the road. We have already seen this happen in Greece and Cyprus. I don't have high hopes that the problem is going to resolve itself peacefully here in America.

[Hannibal]

Those AR-40whatevers can hit drones? Seriously though, I don't get what you're saying here.

No, but if there is ever large scale revolt/civil disorder in this country, there will be a lot of people involved too.

[hack]

Do you mean that if there were an economic crisis here like there is in Greece or Cyprus we would see widespread violence? I mean, I could envision more than a handful of people pulling a Sandy Hook/Columbine/Paduca on the nearest government building they could find. But that's the opposite of needing to protect one's self against the government.