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Originally posted by DennisT
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How about 74 in San Diego? :-D -
I am not opposed to gun ownership nor looking to see them banned. I am just opposing the notion that you aren't safe and are failing to protect your family if you don't own a gun.
Look, you can believe all the fear-mongering stories you want. But the statistics are what they are. If you have a gun in your house, it's more likely to be used in a suicide attempt, against a family member, or cause an accident than it is to fend off a drugged-up psychotic burglar who exists more in middle-class nightmares than in reality.Comment
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It will only get worse as greater numbers of people who cling to the lower rungs of the middle class slip into poverty and turn to drugs and crime to survive. And that doesn't even account for the plain 'ol crazy fuckers.Comment
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Again, this is more fear than reality. Illegal drug use has already declined nearly 1/3 since its peak in the 70's. And a lot of those using are just pot smokers, who aren't going to be put into murderous fits of rage and go out killing peopleOriginally posted by Mike View Post
Crime rates are also significantly lower today than they were in the late 70's-early 80's, except for some truly failed areas like inner Detroit.Comment
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My view is that the implications of your statement above are highly misleading. Keep in mind what we should be focusing on is gun violence, homicides associated with crime and how to decrease those. You're putting forth an argument that because illegal drug use is declining, homicides as a result of gun crimes will decease ...... take a look at this:Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
The drug market is a major contributor to the Nation's homicide rate. Indeed, the peak in homicides during the mid-1980's was directly related to the saturation of urban areas with the crack cocaine drug trade. Methamphetamine -- more powerful, more addictive, and easier to produce than crack cocaine -- is becoming a major drug of choice in urban, suburban, and rural communities. If the methamphetamine trade results in drug wars on the same scale as those of the 1980's, it is possible that homicide rates will begin to climb once more, as drug dealers are among those most likely to carry weapons.21
Guns and gangs
Gangs have proliferated rapidly since 1980, when there were about 2,000 gangs with 100,000 members in 286 cities.22 By 1996, there were 31,000 gangs with 846,000 members in 4,800 cities and towns.23
Gangs are more likely to recruit adolescents who own firearms, and gang members (who are twice as likely to own guns for protection than nongang members) are more likely to carry guns outside their homes.24 The risk of being killed is 60 times greater among young gang members than in the general population25 and in some cities, far higher. For example, the St. Louis youth gang homicide rate is 1,000 times higher than the U.S. homicide rate.26
Although not all gangs are drug organizations, gang membership appears to increase individual participation in drug use and trafficking, gun carrying, violence, and prolonged involvement in drug sales.27 Furthermore, gang activity is no longer a problem that is unique to urban communities. From 1989 to 1995, the percentage of students who reported that street gangs were present at school increased by 186 percent in suburban schools and 250 percent in rural schools. Gangs reportedly operate in 41 percent of urban schools, 26 percent of suburban schools, and 20 percent of rural schools. Long-term solutions to address the problem of gun violence must include a comprehensive approach to reducing the number of youth involved in gangs.
I'm not trying to dump on you here. The point remains gun violence is a problem with multi factorial causes. The solutions being offered by politicians are rife with rhetoric, much of it terribly misleading. Understanding gun violence and producing solutions to the problems in our society it is responsible for requires a broad view of the problem and solutions that address both gun access and gun use.Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.Comment
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Jeff, all I'm doing is using statistics. If the murder rates, crime rates, and illegal drug use rates have all dropped significantly since the late 70's (and they have), why are you or other continuing to insist that the US is on the verge of becoming a Mad Max society?
A lot of this is irrational fear, IMO, because you get fed horrific crime stories by the media and believe that these awful events are a lot more common than they actually are. Combine that with the natural human tendency to believe things were always rosier in the past.Comment
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I used to be a member of the NRA... And I didn't own a gun.
I just wanted the sticker to place on my back door so people assumed a crazy white dude lived there...Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.Comment
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I did attend the Nixon counter inauguration, I will admit to that. Weekend ride from Ann Arbor to DC in January of 73, I guess it must have been.Originally posted by Rob F View PostComment
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As an aside to this discussion on gun violence, it was NOT actually rosier in the past. I heard a great interview on NPR radio on this guy who had written a book about violence. He was being interviewed in the wake of the Conn. school killings.Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
His main point is that historically speaking, today's societies are much less violent that they were in the past. That seemed like sort of a "duh" conclusion until he started trotting out examples of what city life was like in the 17th and 18th centuries. Talk about man's inhumanity and cruelty. Even when there was the emergence of local government and law enforcement, the lawless among the citizenry were no less lawless, they only lacked today's weaponry. But that didn't stop criminals from robbing and killing innocent victims. Pretty staggering crime numbers this guy dug out from early records.
Anyway, all I'm pointing out is that if someone chooses to be prepared to defend himself from gun violence by carrying a weapon, and all that entails to carry it and defend oneself correctly and safely, that decision is personal and has a very small impact on gun violence overall. When you try to imply being prepared to defend yourself with a gun simply creates more purposeless gun violence, I don't think you can defend that position as I have tried to demonstrate with facts of my own.Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.Comment
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Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.Comment
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Good grief! I agree with the Buckeye posting here.
When there is a gun in the house the odds are about 3 to 1 that if it gets used it will be in a tragic accident or a suicide. Anyway, I've never owned a gun and only once have I shot one, at a range. I have no problem with those who insist on owning for sport, or for self defense if they think it makes them safer, but I want nothing to do with a gun.
As for drug violence, let's legalize drugs. More and more folks are waking up to the unintended consequences of anti-drug laws.Comment
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tax the hell out of pot... might be time to say we were wrong on criminalizing it.Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.Comment
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Seems like the biggest no-brainer of all time. Therefore it won't happen.Comment
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