Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[lineygoblue]

I don't understand why

Mercedes Benz can sell cars in America,

but

General Motors can't sell a Cadillac, Buick or Chevrolet in Germany.

Other countries want access to our markets, basically for free.

But when US companies want to sell products in their markets, they are either refused, or hit with a high tariff.

---

And I don't understand why America is wrong if we put a tariff, at a dollar for dollar value, on other countries that do the same to us.

Tell me why our markets should be open on a freebie basis, and we are somehow wrong for demanding the same of others.

I honestly don't understand that.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well what Trump just did isn't matching tariffs "dollar for dollar". It was a childish formula based on trade imbalance. Lesotho's an incredibly poor third world country and we import a bunch of diamonds from them. They buy very little from us. Trump has declared this horribly unfair, it's unfair we're so rich that we can buy all this stuff, so they got slapped with some of the highest tariffs on any country.

Countries that have NO tariffs on us (Singapore) or we actually run a surplus with (UK) got hit with a minimum 10% tariff anyways because...well, just because.

There's no careful strategy here, it's a shotgun approach. Someone on CNBC said it's like burning down your house to cook a steak.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Behind a paywall but this a long feature on US apparel companies (yes, some still exist) clamoring for protections. The average starting pay? $11 an hour. That's less than what you can make at McDonald's now. Costco's average starting pay is $30/hr. This bizarre love affair part of MAGA has with factory work being the best work of all just baffles me. I grew up in a rust belt factory town. Four members of my family worked in auto plants (one still does) and to others worked at a steel mill. Not one of them ever told me they loved their job and I'd be a fool to do anything else. The complete opposite was true. Do well in school so you have more options than I did because I'm miserable and my body is breaking down would be more accurate.

Where Textile Mills Thrived, Remnants Battle for Survival - The New York Times

[Dr. Strangelove]

I don't understand why

Mercedes Benz can sell cars in America,

but

General Motors can't sell a Cadillac, Buick or Chevrolet in Germany.

Other countries want access to our markets, basically for free.

But when US companies want to sell products in their markets, they are either refused, or hit with a high tariff.

---

And I don't understand why America is wrong if we put a tariff, at a dollar for dollar value, on other countries that do the same to us.

Tell me why our markets should be open on a freebie basis, and we are somehow wrong for demanding the same of others.

I honestly don't understand that.

BTW (and you can look this up) but in 2023 the best selling car in Europe was the Tesla Model Y.

Elon's products are a lot less popular over there these days I'd imagine.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Tell me why our markets should be open on a freebie basis, and we are somehow wrong for demanding the same of others.

We're not wrong .......Thinking of this in a broader way and not country by country, dollar for dollar highlights the benefits of having a protectionist president. Trump has long opposed globalists and their free trade mantra. He feels, and with some basis in fact, that globalism and the free trade born of it, has hurt America's power, built over years of advancing military and economic strength. Now, the US is experiencing a shrinking military advantages, deficit spending that are tripling the national debt, geopolitical overreach, and a shift in moral, social, and behavioral conditions. All of these have been associated with American decline in a world dominated by globalists and globalism

Tariffs, in a broader context, can improve the competitiveness of American producers in the market place by making their imported goods cheaper than the goods of the targeted country. It can protect domestic jobs. Level the playing field of global trade. Raise additional revenue for the government. None of these benefits suddenly accrue following the imposition of tariffs. They purportedly become evident over time. That's why there is such gnashing of teeth by opponents of protective tariffs (the left and Reagan Rs). Their arguments are not without credibility. All the opponents of tariffs have to do is point to the crash in global markets catalyzed by Trump's sweeping tariffs he imposed last week.

I've argued that the fundamentals of Trump's approach to tariffs are not unreasonable nor indefensible. Others disagree. The hard part for Trump and his tariff supporters is that they have to wait for positive results from the imposition of those tariffs, especially the sweeping nature of them. There are both signs that support Trump's approach and cast doubt on them. The larger set of countries aren't retaliating but rather articulating that they will seek negotiations and compromise. The notable exception is China. The coming weeks and months will tell the story. A recession, if it happens, will prove Trump's approach to have been terribly misguided. OTH, an improving US economy bolstered by increased trade, a reshoring of service providers and hi-tech manufacturing , an improved job market at home will prove Trump right.

[lineygoblue]

I'm no economics expert by any means, but in my opinion, I don't see why countries who close their markets completely to our products should receive open access to our markets.

I don't see how that even the most fervent Trump/Musk despising wackos can justify that. But a lot of them aren't sane, so I guess there's that. And I'll even pose that some of the Trump/Musk hating wackos have no idea what is going on in the international marketplace. They just hate Trump so much, that they'll oppose anything that he's in favor of.

I'm told that one thing Trump would like to do is make all senior citizens over 65 totally except from all taxes. Property, sales, income, etc.. no taxes at all. I suppose the wackos will find a way to oppose that as well, and consider it "nazi-ism".

[Dr. Strangelove]

Liney I know you’re no economic expert by any means but could you list the countries YOU seem to think have closed their markets completely to our products?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump pissed off the Europeans enough to actually work on a weekend.

[foxhopper]

Over 50 countries already want to negotiate tariffs....

Sounds like maybe winning...

[froot loops]

I wonder if everyone realizes how much produce the United States imports. That is going to be the first thing you see the price hikes on. For fucks sake, we spent a whole election talking about inflation, this is much more inflationary than anything else you can do

Again, this whole stupid, ridiculous program is based on Trump's fundamental misunderstanding of trade deficits. We are a rich country, the richest depending on the metric you use. We have a trade deficit with Madagascar because they have vanilla and are extremely poor, they can't buy anything we produce.

This is like those stupid Brexiteers saying how Brexit was going to orient trade in a better direction for Britain, it didn't and they are becoming much poorer as a nation. When your consumers have to pay tariffs you are poorer.

[lineygoblue]

Liney I know you’re no economic expert by any means but could you list the countries YOU seem to think have closed their markets completely to our products?

I doubt that there are many. Perhaps North Korea and Iran? I honestly don't know.

I don't see why Europe should be allowed to freely sell cars and trucks in the US, while Europe has laws and regulations that do not allow US manufactured cars and trucks to be sold there.

And its the same for other products. Other countries want free access to our markets, but refuse to let us have access to theirs completely, or they slap their own tariff on our products, or add regulations that make our products unaffordable there. Is this fair? I guess progs and libs say yes. I don't agree.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Hong Kong's stock market had its worst single day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis.

[froot loops]

This is fucking madness. Jeff Buchanan wants us to take solace in that the economy survived previous shocks, but in all of those other scenarios the US government actively did things to mitigate the circumstances, these fools are doing nothing.

You can't have these multiple selloffs without introducing a big chance of other catastrophes. Did all of these fools forget the crash of 2008. Back then they fucked it up massively by letting Lehman fail because of some textbook definition of moral hazard.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Elon Musk was openly insulting Peter Navarro over the weekend and sharing clips of Milton Friedman opposing tariffs. Trump-supporting billionaire Bill Ackman accused Howard Lutnick of deliberately tanking the economy in order to enrich himself and his company.

The MAGA coalition is showing strains this week.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump tariffs live updates: President threatens new 50% China duties

Trump's giving China till tomorrow to remove their retaliatory tariffs or he's hitting them again and cancel all planned talks. Great stuff