Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Hannibal]

Liberals are pretending to care about free speech again LOL

[iam416]

IMO Sex Ed books that contain pictures shouldn't be in anything but a high school library (on a case by case basis). I would have to probably draw the line at sex toy info. I will say my first Sex Ed took place in 7th grade Health class.

Now that I've made concessions, can also stop pretending that only hardcore pornography is being removed? Books by Toni Morrison, Jodi Piccoult, James Patterson, and well known books like The Kite Runner, The Perks of Being a Wallflower, and the Handmaid's Tale are being removed from school libraries down there because they have sex scenes or present difficult racial content. And by removed I mean taken out of the high school library, they were never required reading to begin with. And it ain't like some 2nd grader is reading Toni Morrison.

I've never read any of the shitty Twilight books but I'm pretty sure there's sex in them. Those are aimed at girls in their early teens. Apparently those wouldn't make the cut at a school library either.

Dozens of books removed from Martin County schools (wptv.com)

There's a pretty big difference between local schools voluntarily removing the books and the State forcing them to do so. Several districts have intentionally removed way more than they had to send a message and DeSantis and the Florida DoE have basically told them, "yeah, remove what you want, but a lot of that shit is ok." This was part and parcel to the "OMG, DeSantis has made it a crime to have these books on the shelves" -- when, in fact, he has not -- the ages old Florida anti-porn-for-kids penalties do, but not DeSantis.

So, I don't know what's happening in Marin County. But, I'd just caution you -- there are districts that are, for lack of a better phrase, intentionally "making a scene".

[Hannibal]

Sex scenes in books are a tricky area. As long as they don't condone violence or promote risky sexual behaviors, I would default to leaving a book that contains sex in a high school library.

But that's assuming that everyone's opinions are allowed. They aren't. Lots of Right Wing books have been banned from the public space. Are some school libraries not carrying Handmaiden's Tale? I don't fucking care. I guarantee you those libraries would never carry The Bell Curve or The Turner Diaries (the latter is banned pretty much everywhere). I doubt that high school libraries even carry books by someone like Ann Coulter.

[CGVT]

IMO Sex Ed books that contain pictures shouldn't be in anything but a high school library (on a case by case basis). I would have to probably draw the line at sex toy info. I will say my first Sex Ed took place in 7th grade Health class.

Now that I've made concessions, can also stop pretending that only hardcore pornography is being removed? Books by Toni Morrison, Jodi Piccoult, James Patterson, and well known books like The Kite Runner, The Perks of Being a Wallflower, and the Handmaid's Tale are being removed from school libraries down there because they have sex scenes or present difficult racial content. And by removed I mean taken out of the high school library, they were never required reading to begin with. And it ain't like some 2nd grader is reading Toni Morrison.

I've never read any of the shitty Twilight books but I'm pretty sure there's sex in them. Those are aimed at girls in their early teens. Apparently those wouldn't make the cut at a school library either.

Dozens of books removed from Martin County schools (wptv.com)

Exactly

[Mike]

I'm guessing the overwhelming majority of those books would not meet the standard for removal.

[Dr. Strangelove]

There's a pretty big difference between local schools voluntarily removing the books and the State forcing them to do so. Several districts have intentionally removed way more than they had to send a message and DeSantis and the Florida DoE have basically told them, "yeah, remove what you want, but a lot of that shit is ok." This was part and parcel to the "OMG, DeSantis has made it a crime to have these books on the shelves" -- when, in fact, he has not -- the ages old Florida anti-porn-for-kids penalties do, but not DeSantis.

So, I don't know what's happening in Marin County. But, I'd just caution you -- there are districts that are, for lack of a better phrase, intentionally "making a scene".

Speaking only about this county they were yanked because one loudmouth parent, someone affiliated with "Moms for Liberty", complained. Maybe I'm totally wrong but the law is vague enough that schools will usually error on the side of caution rather than risk anything.

I get that some places are emptying the shelves and saying "Look what Ron DeSantis has done" though.

[iam416]

Here's an example: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...orida-schools/

That link catalogs books removed from certain Orlando-area school districts and the reason. HB 1557 is the DeSantis bill. 847.012 is the anti-porn-for-kids bill that was in effect well before DeSantis took over. No school district reported removing Toni Morrison or others.

My guess is Marin County was all about spectacle and creating a scene so that right-minded Progs could scream "BOOK BANNING!!!!"

It would have been pretty simple for Marin County to just say, nah, we ain't doing that. But, they'd much rather make a scene. So, you know, BOOK BANNING!!!!

[Hannibal]

One question that not enough people are asking is "how did pornographic books end up in the library in the first place"? Who decided to put them there? They don't magically appear on shelves.

[Mike]

EFZ

Edit: X2

[iam416]

Speaking only about this county they were yanked because one loudmouth parent, someone affiliated with "Moms for Liberty", complained. Maybe I'm totally wrong but the law is vague enough that schools will usually error on the side of caution rather than risk anything.

I get that some places are emptying the shelves and saying "Look what Ron DeSantis has done" though.

Two things.

(1) The anti-porn law and criminal penalties have been in effect for years.
(2) The DeSantis Bill carries with it no criminal penalties. School districts could be subject to injunction and, potentially, civil damages.

So, if what you're saying is that Marin County would rather error on the side caution and ban Beloved because NOW they're so fearful, well, yeah -- you go ahead and believe that.

[iam416]

It's quite a thing when you can see those school districts that make an honest attempt to comply with the law and those that don't and see that, yeah, welp, once again it's more conservative school districts that are banning less. Par for the course.

That's the real fucking problem with this "book banning" shit -- is that you have hundreds of school districts evaluating books under the same law -- so you get to see what is actually an issue and what's for show.What's real and what's for Progs who just want to scream "NAZI BOOK BANNER!!!!"

[Dr. Strangelove]

Two things.

(1) The anti-porn law and criminal penalties have been in effect for years.
(2) The DeSantis Bill carries with it no criminal penalties. School districts could be subject to injunction and, potentially, civil damages.

So, if what you're saying is that Marin County would rather error on the side caution and ban Beloved because NOW they're so fearful, well, yeah -- you go ahead and believe that.

DeSantis has the power to remove school board members and has used this power in the past to remove people who defied his covid orders. If Moms for Liberty goes squawking to DeSantis and makes a big stink that a school board is ignoring them, you really think DeSantis is about to piss off his base and tell them to get lost?

Also, Martin County is a heavily Republican county. I guess it's possible that the school board is all libs and they just want to embarrass Meatball Ron by caving to the crackpots but...yeah I dunno, man. Not entirely buying this.

[iam416]

BTW, this is how grown-ups deal with it:

The school district [Polk County] said it has not banned any books at this time. School officials added in 2022, they reviewed several titles challenged by Concerned Citizens Defending Freedom, and as a result, created an online system allowing parents to opt their child out of checking out certain books from the library.

Parents can block access to certain books for their kids while other kids can still check out the same book. Now, this wouldn't necessarily apply to cartoon picture books on how to 69 your best friend -- but that was prohibited well-before DeSantis took over.

[Hannibal]

Also, Martin County is a heavily Republican county. I guess it's possible that the school board is all libs...

This is possible. Where I live, the school board and most of the teachers reside significantly to the Left of the average Jane or Joe who lives here.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The Jacksonville school that literally pulled every book from the shelves? Yeah that was a stunt. A conservative school district removing a few dozen books at the request of conservative activists? Yeah, I'm not convinced that's also just a stunt.