Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[foxhopper]

Moving to a more conforming country may be a good idea for you Jeff. Nothing here but us freedumb loving rebels.

[lineygoblue]

Jeff is a fan of freedom and personal liberties in America. Anyone who flew air missions in Viet Nam and got shot at is a freedom loving American in my book.

[foxhopper]

Never said he wasn't.

[Mike]

For anyone who knows about that story of the NY restaurant that had its hostesses attacked over enforcing the vaccine mandate for indoor dining:

BLM will be protesting the restaurant, Carmine's, because the attackers were black and subsequently arrested. All 3 employees from the restaurant are women of color and one of them sustained a concussion in the attack.

Question: Which women of color matter most?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bla...ng-nyc-hostess

[Jeff Buchanan]

I know this is a touchy subject here as there are plenty of posters who will patently reject what I recommended as solutions to the US's failing performance in the face of the SARS 2 pandemic. The emerging majority global view among scientists and researchers with sufficient training to offer one reliably see a need to act not sit passively by and let shit happen. From what I'm reading, the view of where we are and where we are headed is a lot less optimistic than it was in mid-July. That is what prompted my post. Time to face reality.

Among scientists it's difficult to speak up because if you are wrong it means you lose your job and the grants that support your pay check. That is part of the reason the, "we just don't know mantra" among this crowd is so pervasive. Fence sitting at its best. Fauci is the preeminent fence sitter and he knows the costs of being wrong. But these people know and if you're reading closely they'll say because of SARS2 and how it behaves the world is in shit sandwich. Typical scientific writing style conceals it. But I get it. Doesn't mean I like it. There's no cost to me of telling members here what I posted above. It's not pretty.

I'm not confident the several here who, I would think, are completely on the other side of my position on this, are convincible. Those that are and have some sense that I am probably right, aren't going to post "likes" on my OP. I get that too. I appreciate that they get read because my sense is that everyone posting here wants to listen to what the other side has to say..... I think.

I've never been a fan of the EU nor of their policies. They are too left leaning and fundamentally socialistic at their extremes, less so at their moderate middle. There is still a strong classic liberal view coming from France no less and certainly from Germany that lives in the shadow of Nazism. Then there is Great Britain and Boris Johnson, still a beacon of right leaning classical liberalism. But the facts on the ground suggest that roping in what people see as fundamental liberties to achieve a tangible benefit at what, to the EU, is an acceptable price has produced a gaping difference in disease impact there compared to the US.

I don't expect folks on the other side of this to think vaccine mandates and trace and track apps are workable for them or that these steps will produce tangible results worth the cost. I'm well past that. What I hope to achieve in writing about what I think would work here in the US if the folks got aboard with it is to look at where governments have adopted these strategies, produced a near return to normal life with what would be considered as temporary and moderate level of inconvenience. Certainly, along with that comes a willingness to cede some ground on the scrupulous maintenance of personal freedoms. America has faced crisis in the past and risen to the occasion. That was a long time ago if you mark WWII as an example. Since then we've not done so well. Maybe it's time to change that trajectory in the face of this shit storm.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Stock market is looking like it's about to have a very bad day. Some real estate developer in China, a company I'm not familiar with, is rumored to be on the verge of bankruptcy and it's impacting one stock market after another, starting with Asia overnight.

In the last 40 minutes of the stock trading day, the DJIA surged about 350 points to ease the losses out of the gate this morning. There's s shit ton of machine trading going on. I don't know much about Evergrande but if it's failure fucks with Xi and his comrades and stays confined to those commies and the country they rule, I'm fine with it. Karma for leaking SARS2 out of the unsafe, poorly secured labs you ran.

[Kapture1]

I would rather die of Covid than give up autonomy over my body. No means no, period.


and I am not being hyperbolic. I mean there is a 99.8% it won't kill me, no I am not worried about dying of Covid. You might be and fine, go get your vaccination and leave me the fuck alone.

But you wanna take food off my table and out of my kids mouths because I won't do what you tell me? How about fuck you then?

[Hannibal]

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[Kapture1]

"My diet won't work because you are overeating"

#vaccinelogic

[foxhopper]

And 50% of the ones hospitalized don't need to be there.

[lineygoblue]

I'm not in favor of forced vaccinations, or mandating vaccinations in order to conduct business or travel. I am fully vaccinated, and if my doctor recommends that I get a booster, I will.

But, a vaccination (IMO) is a choice, a true choice, and not a faux choice like abortion. I am not in favor of taking away an individual's constitutionally protected personal freedoms and liberties, in order to get them vaccinated. Its not justifyable by our current laws, without suspending the Constitution.

JMO.

Hammer away if you like.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm not in favor of forced vaccinations, or mandating vaccinations in order to conduct business or travel. I am fully vaccinated, and if my doctor recommends that I get a booster, I will.

But, a vaccination (IMO) is a choice, a true choice, and not a faux choice like abortion. I am not in favor of taking away an individual's constitutionally protected personal freedoms and liberties, in order to get them vaccinated. Its not justifyable by our current laws, without suspending the Constitution.

JMO.

Hammer away if you like.

If you believe employment-based vaccine mandates or mandates passed by local governments are "unconstitutional" you're just flat out wrong. It's been well established since 1905 that they're constitutional. The questionable area is in what Biden has done, impose a nation-wide mandate.

[Obi-Jon]

Liney,its not much different than screaming fire in a crowded theater. When your actions clearly endanger others, your actions are not protected. I'm actually torn on this issue. I don't think gov't should have to mandate anything. But I am also stunned by the massive intentional stupidity of a large segment of the population, and this falls on the right and left.

I'd rather see an incentive. Create a national database - if you're vaccinated you get your federal taxes halved. Also allow insurance companies not to cover covid costs for the unvaccinated without medical exemption.

[iam416]

The local vaccine mandates were upheld but there is still no power to force vaccinations. You can only fine people who fail to comply. Further, the rationale was based on creating a grave danger. It’s obvious that is NOT the case here. As the Chairnan noted, if you’re vaccinated you’re at roughly 1 in 160,000 to even be hospitalized. That ain’t a grave danger. That’s life.

So, I’d also think about akin to abortion. Facts matter. Yeah, if it’s first trimester then Constitutional right. If it’s third trimester then not so much. If it’s some sort of grave danger sure. If it’s the flu, yeah, no. Where does COVID fall? IMO, and citing the Chairman, way fucking closer to the latter.

[iam416]

And Biden’s nationwide bullshit is brazenly unconstitutional. I mean, even HE said as much. There ain’t no debate.