Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

Wizard has a point. The reverend Jesse Jackson and his wife are in the hospital right now, fighting Covid. Both were fully vaccinated.

I think getting the vax is a good idea, but it doesn't seem to guarantee that you won't get it. Those demanding vax mandates seem to think that it is.

We don't think a vax is a guarantee against ever catching it again. But the % of vaccinated people being hospitalized right now is low, and very rare if you're under 65. Jesse Jackson is 79 and has Parkinson's.

People who are refusing to get vaxxed either seem to think there's literally some voodoo black magic behind the technology OR they think whether you're vaxxed or not your chances are all the same. They are not.

[THE_WIZARD_]

...

[CGVT]

Good. All the fuckers that spread that false bullshit should pay. "But...THEY STOLE THE ELECTION"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...AeULm_gOtsgJOU

FCC looks to fine conservative activists $5 million for false mail voting robocalls

The calls lied about mail voting in the run-up to the 2020 election.

[Tom W]

FCC looks to fine conservative activists $5 million for false mail voting robocalls

The calls lied about mail voting in the run-up to the 2020 election.

Gee, now if only the FCC would do something more constructive- like cracking down on the Asshats that call me everyday about Credit Card rate reduction, Car warranties, student loans, funeral expenses, Medical supplements, Amazon purchases, car warranties, and illegal activities that someone using my name performed near the Texas border..

[crashcourse]

DSL the drones and the 208 aircraft and more importantly all the bells and whistles going into their weapons systems and communications system is gold.

the humvees likely with similar bells and whistles

not to mention all the intelligence gained from us abandoning ship

you really think military equipment was the only think we left behind?

guarentee they have a treasure trove on US military and contractor names addresses and personal information--bankoing info CIA contacts and measures we took to gain intel. You dont leave all that shit behind and all those people behind and not leave an extrordinary amount of other intel behind

but go ahead--keep getting your info from baghdad Jenn

[lineygoblue]

Preach, brother Tom. I particularly like the calls that tell me that an arrest warrant has been issued for me, and that I need to immediately verify my SSAN and address so that the caller can "correct" the situation for me. I doubt that our honorable FCC folks will ever eliminate those characters.

[Dr. Strangelove]

DSL the drones and the 208 aircraft and more importantly all the bells and whistles going into their weapons systems and communications system is gold.

the humvees likely with similar bells and whistles

not to mention all the intelligence gained from us abandoning ship

you really think military equipment was the only think we left behind?

guarentee they have a treasure trove on US military and contractor names addresses and personal information--bankoing info CIA contacts and measures we took to gain intel. You dont leave all that shit behind and all those people behind and not leave an extrordinary amount of other intel behind

but go ahead--keep getting your info from baghdad Jenn

If all the stuff being left behind is so valuable from an intelligence standpoint, why didn't Trump remove any of it? He signed the withdrawal deal in Feb 2020. That gave him a full year to get anything sensitive out. Are you saying he screwed up?

Maybe once we leave Biden will hit the more valuable equipment with an air strike

You still haven't really explained how you think the Afghan army could have held out against the Taliban if we took away all their guns and equipment.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Preach, brother Tom. I particularly like the calls that tell me that an arrest warrant has been issued for me, and that I need to immediately verify my SSAN and address so that the caller can "correct" the situation for me. I doubt that our honorable FCC folks will ever eliminate those characters.

I've been notified several times that my IRS bill is very overdue and I need to immediately pay it in Wal-Mart gift cards else I will be sent to federal prison.

[Tom W]

You still haven't really explained how you think the Afghan army could have held out against the Taliban if we took away all their guns and equipment.

Not to steal crash's thunder, but the Afghan army really couldn't have done any worse than they did WITH that equipment, could they?

[crashcourse]

The real afghan army did wind up losing 80K but the american and just as important the ally presence kept them engaged

once it was lknown we were going to bail on the afghans --their miltiary likly started looking for ways out. led by their pres

supposedly the vice president has a rebel army in one of the valleys that is going to continue to resisi for whatever good that does,

Far as trump goes--who knows what his endgame was-originally supposedly him and taliban leader had an understanding and when taliban failed to live up to their end trump kept the troops there last year. course taliban was likly waiting for election cycle to play itself out before they committed to trumps timeline and who can blame them

especially after watching this clusterfuc-

Yeah it was a no win situation but honestly you now are talking like you are pulling troops and leaving hundreds of americans behind

nobody can defend biden for that kind of asshat decision

[Jeff Buchanan]

Step away from the defense or condemnation of the path the Biden administration chose to disengage. I’ve seen wide spread naïveté about some of the commentary on Afghanistan. It presumes that there was a clean solution for the U.S., if only the Biden administration (and, to a lesser extent, the Trump administration) had executed it. The commentary never quite spells out what the solution was, though. Instead what we get by journalists is photos of chaos and headlines of hardship and death.

The fundamental choice for the three involved administrations was between a permanent, low-level U.S. war in Afghanistan and a messy exit. The pullout was never going to be a simple thing. It was always going to be an ugly pullout.

From the NYTs:

It’s important to start with this background: The biggest failure in Afghanistan almost certainly was not anything that happened this week or even in the past decade. It was a decision, early in the 2000s, to seek total victory in a faraway war of questionable relevance to U.S. national interests. .....The American war, was most likely doomed from the start.

To me, the Afghanistan shit storm was for the Biden administration like the Pandemic was from Trump. Both got dealt a shitty hand and had to deal with it. Some form of American disengagement was inevitable and probably so during Biden's term as president as a result of what the Trump administrations set in motion. That is because of an unjustifiable colonialist neocon adventure to nation build embarked upon in the early 2000s in a war of questionable relevance to U.S. national interests. Start from that perspective.

Was a better organized pull out keeping military forces in place to supervise and orderly more discreet withdrawal available? Hard question to answer as we are being led to believe that agreements between Trump and Ghani set into motion a quicker time frame with the Taliban supposedly agreeing to stand-by. They didn't. The withdrawal, massive as it would have been would have neither been more orderly and definitely not discreet. It would have set into motion a flood of government and civilian Afghans bailing out. Maybe just a speck slower than what's going on now.

Again from the NYTs

Some former U.S. officials have suggested that staying in Afghanistan indefinitely was worth the costs. On the other hand, these tend to be the same officials whose previous optimistic promises have repeatedly proven false. At some point, the conflict with the Taliban would likely have intensified again, requiring more U.S. troops, money and sacrifice. Already, polls showed that a large, bipartisan majority of Americans wanted the military to leave.

All of which suggests that a withdrawal may have been inevitable, sooner rather than later. It could have gone better than it has. But it was probably destined not to go well.

[Da Geezer]

If all the stuff being left behind is so valuable from an intelligence standpoint, why didn't Trump remove any of it? He signed the withdrawal deal in Feb 2020. That gave him a full year to get anything sensitive out. Are you saying he screwed up?

Maybe once we leave Biden will hit the more valuable equipment with an air strike

You still haven't really explained how you think the Afghan army could have held out against the Taliban if we took away all their guns and equipment.

Yup. It was Trump's fault.

[CGVT]

Gee, now if only the FCC would do something more constructive- like cracking down on the Asshats that call me everyday about Credit Card rate reduction, Car warranties, student loans, funeral expenses, Medical supplements, Amazon purchases, car warranties, and illegal activities that someone using my name performed near the Texas border..

Yeah, because they are the same thing

[Dr. Strangelove]

Yup. It was Trump's fault.

I assume this is sarcastic.

First, you should read Jeff's post above yours because there's some good stuff in it.

Then I'll repeat myself again that I think Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all contributed to this fiasco and in fact Bush/Obama screwed up more than the other two really did. I'll also repeat that I think Biden owns the fucked up final evacuation.

Now let's return to the idea of the abandoned military equipment being a huge disaster. My first point is that I don't think it's as big a deal as political hatchet men are making it out to be. I don't think anything truly top secret was being given to the highly unreliable Afghans. I think the Pentagon was well aware any equipment that we gave the Afghan Army would either get sold or traded to the Taliban at some point. That's been likely happening since 2001. If you're worried about the Chinese getting their hands on old helicopters and rifles of ours I mean...how difficult do you think it's been for them to get that stuff up before now?

Second point is that it's unrealistic for us to disarm the Afghan military at the same time we're telling them we have full confidence in them and expect them to have our backs while we evacuate all our people.

Maybe we'll be able to launch a few rockets up the Taliban's butts to at least destroy a few helicopters or humvees right after we leave, like Mike suggested. I don't know.

BUT, if you really do think it's a huge problem all that stuff was left behind, is it not fair to ask what Trump's plans were for removing all of it? He signed the withdrawal agreement in Feb of 2020. That gave him almost an entire year to get this stuff out of the country if it really was so dangerous. Keep in mind I'm not the one saying it should have been a top priority: you and crash are, apparently.

Similarly a lot of people are attacking Biden for not granting enough Special Immigrant Visas (SIVs) and getting those guys out. This opens the door, again, to ask about Trump's SIV program and how many Afghans he rescued under the SIV program during his final year in office. My understanding is that no Afghan was allowed into the US under the SIV program after March 2020. The program was virtually shut down for the remainder of Trump's presidency and covid was the given excuse. Nevermind that Trump and his immigration czar Miller were adamantly against (and still are) bringing Afghans into the USA.

[iam416]

tl;dr: it’s a fucking disaster created by Biden, but it’s not THAT big of a fucking disaster….