Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[froot loops]

The biggest question is why were veterans, legislators, CEOs and current law enforcement officers participating in this? Trump lost and they were trying some futile attempt to either kill some in the congress or force them to change the electoral college votes. It is so fucking stupid and all Lineygoblue is doing is talking about The Party like an little baby.

[lineygoblue]

Lee Harvey Oswald was armed. He set out to murder a President. He fired three shots and did it. He also murdered a police officer.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Air Force veteran intended to harm anyone, at any time in her life. And, of course, she was unarmed.

And there is no evidence that any of the other veterans assembled in Washington this week, intended to harm anyone. So far, I've not heard of any of them that were armed. Not one. Yet deadly force was used very quickly. Did the AF vet 'cross a line' that the secret service established? I don't think that's been established either. Are secret service agents trained to determine if someone is armed?

Isn't this one of the reasons we had so much rioting over the summer? Law enforcement "out of control"... "shooting innocent (unarmed) people"? When do folks on the right start demanding that the secret service and DC Police be defunded and eliminated?

All that happened this week was some hotheads got out of control, stormed the "sacred" Capitol building, broke some cheap furniture, busted a couple windows, and took about a million stupid selfies of their actions. When the DC police came in and threatened to use force, the majority of the demonstrators LEFT THE AREA. They didn't set fires. They didn't loot small businesses, they didn't overturn police cars and private vehicles. They didn't confront and beat up innocent bystanders. Shoot, they didn't even block one freeway. They just left. 6 hours after the "horrible" event, you'd never have known they were there.

That's okay, though. The purge by The Party has begun. You folks on the left are in for some giddy times over the next 24 months. Grab some popcorn and enjoy yourselves.

[CGVT]

Here's something for you all to get all sanctimonious about... (admit it. It made you laugh)

136731351_3469529953095515_6594075863167542652_n.jpg

[Jeff Buchanan]

Subject change. This is a fun and interesting story about how health authorities responded to the Bubonic Plague outbreaks in 15th and 16th century Europe. I found it interesting that the Plague had multiple occurences of varying outcomes over a 200 year span. Two other perspectives for me: Human behavior in the face of government authority and dictat hasn't changed much and we obviously don't learn from history!

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210107-the-432-year-old-manual-on-social-distancing

[lineygoblue]

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Mr Klein is the Washington director of ABC News.

Political "cleansing" is what he advocates. Ethnic cleansing next?

[Jeff Buchanan]

Lots of drama on both sides of this with participants exaggerating the importance and significance of events to advance their perspectives. The shooting death of Ashli Babbitt is a perfect example. This isn't a criticism of either side's takes, just an observation.

I do grow tired though of the apocalyptic predictions of the demise of anything related to what proponents of it believe is conservatism - and that term used in the widest, fully encompassing meaning of it. "Socialism" - and I mean that in it's most widely constrained definition - ain't happening here in the US. The point has been made among observers that the election outcome and it's aftermath last week, it's big picture of what the November 11th vote and the millions of Americans that came to Washington last week means, will sustain the influence of conservatism in all matters of policy emanating from Washington DC.

We could use a bit of "socialism" when it comes to health care. I could make my point but how absolutely fucked up and unfair the US healthcare delivery system is has been made time and time again. It is very likely that, despite the hand ringing over Warnocks and Ossof's wins in GA, something might actually be done to unfuck US healthcare delivery.

Equal justice under the law? Does anyone deny that America is still a country where there is an underclass of citizens upon whom the law is applied unfairly? I think there should be properly expressed anger about this. There is plenty here in this issue alone where agreement with the left might allow both the right and left to move to center. What's holding such movement back is what I spoke of in my first paragraph above. That activity just drives wedges and prevents accommodation of the ideas of both sides.

On immigration reform the same concept of insuring all citizens receive equal treatment under the law applies here as well. Reformers and wall builders need to move to center. It's a fool's errand to adopt policies that block the flow of immigrants into the US fearing that flow will demand that government will permanently feed and house them at the expense of those Americans who have jobs and are earning taxed incomes.Likewise, unrestrained immigration and illegal boarder crossings. A bit of social awareness is needed here too. Examples abound in other countries of how immigration is handled through social programs that create pathways to productive citizenship. There are ways to balance immigration inflow to available resources to accommodate that.

My view is that the Biden presidency has an unprecedented opportunity for action on these three critical issues, among others. If the two sides can stop insisting my way or the highway. Some progress might actually be made.

[AlabamAlum]

Lee Harvey Oswald was armed. He set out to murder a President. He fired three shots and did it. He also murdered a police officer.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Air Force veteran intended to harm anyone, at any time in her life. And, of course, she was unarmed.

And there is no evidence that any of the other veterans assembled in Washington this week, intended to harm anyone. So far, I've not heard of any of them that were armed. Not one. Yet deadly force was used very quickly. Did the AF vet 'cross a line' that the secret service established? I don't think that's been established either. Are secret service agents trained to determine if someone is armed?

Isn't this one of the reasons we had so much rioting over the summer? Law enforcement "out of control"... "shooting innocent (unarmed) people"? When do folks on the right start demanding that the secret service and DC Police be defunded and eliminated?

All that happened this week was some hotheads got out of control, stormed the "sacred" Capitol building, broke some cheap furniture, busted a couple windows, and took about a million stupid selfies of their actions. When the DC police came in and threatened to use force, the majority of the demonstrators LEFT THE AREA. They didn't set fires. They didn't loot small businesses, they didn't overturn police cars and private vehicles. They didn't confront and beat up innocent bystanders. Shoot, they didn't even block one freeway. They just left. 6 hours after the "horrible" event, you'd never have known they were there.

That's okay, though. The purge by The Party has begun. You folks on the left are in for some giddy times over the next 24 months. Grab some popcorn and enjoy yourselves.

Liney,

She was part of a group who stormed the Capitol. Some with guns, zip ties (for hostages?), and tactical gear. Some of the group took things, some stuff was destroyed, offices ransacked, and a cop was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Some unnerved Secret Service Agent fired through at the mob trying to breach a locked set of doors - no one knew if the mob was armed or what their intent was once they broke through. I hate that she was shot but, honestly, it took great restraint that more weren't killed.

Her death, while horrible, isn’t some indictment of the Left or the Deep State using violence to bring the Party Opposite to heal and it’s hard for me to be overcome with sympathy for her.

[iam416]

Equal justice under the law? Does anyone deny that America is still a country where there is an underclass of citizens upon whom the law is applied unfairly?

Yes. Right here. Big hand in the air. This isn't some sort of one-off anecdotal, outlier statement. This is a statement of intentional, systemic "injustice." So, yeah, Big ol' fucking hand in the air.

On immigration reform the same concept of insuring all citizens receive equal treatment under the law applies here as well. Reformers and wall builders need to move to center. It's a fool's errand to adopt policies that block the flow of immigrants into the US fearing that flow will demand that government will permanently feed and house them at the expense of those Americans who have jobs and are earning taxed incomes. A bit of social awareness is needed here too. Examples abound in other countries of how immigration is handled through social programs that create pathways to productive citizenship. There are ways to balance immigration inflow to available resources to accommodate that

.

What in the holy hell are you blabbering about. No one is blocking the flow of immigrants into the US. NO ONE. One side wants them to follow established immigration laws. The other does not.

And look, man, the Ds nearly nominated a guy who wanted open borders and full socialized benefits for anyone on the country including free college.

So, again, what in the holy fucking hell are you talking about? What color is the sky in your world?

[Mike]

Someone hide Liney’s pearls!

There are 18 million military veterans in the United States. Of that group there are murderers, drug dealers, rapists, addicts, bank robbers, child molesters, and quacko conspiracy theorists. You know... just like every other large demographic. Serving one’s country is an honorable service which should be applauded.

But simply serving in the military does not confer some exalted virtuous status for life that renders the veteran impervious to the consequences of poor decisions and horrible mistakes.

We’ve also learned through many of the police shootings that being unarmed doesn’t necessarily mean the suspect doesn’t pose a threat. Ashli Babbit was 10 feet from the chamber door and there were hundreds of angry people that would have followed her in. My calculus would have been the same as the cop’s: If I let in the first one, I let in 1,000. If I shoot the first one, I let in zero. Sucks to be her but she’s the one who entered herself into the Darwin Games.

[Ghengis Jon]

Jeff - my way or the highway is stuck with us until politics ceases to be a give no quarter affair.


Tell me Liney, how would you end this madness without curtailing freedom of speech? In 2016, Trump stated only through massive voter fraud would he lose the election, setting the stage for his expected loss to Clinton. (Aides previously stated this would have been part of the plan monetizing his post candidacy.) Fast forward through 4 years of incessant lies. Prior to the election, Trump claimed endless times he could only lose through fraud. His precious fragile ego nurtured by sycophantic enablers at every turn, reinforcing His Majesty's alternate realities. His lies and dog whistles have created a blind following, a political cult where reality is only what His Majesty says it is. Then, all of a sudden, His Grace loses the election, fair and square, just like HE won in 2016. And what's the reaction? He incessantly spews lies, falsehoods obvious to the entire planet except his cult. These lies take root in millions of people who drool and nod under the false belief their Lord & Master will speak the truth. At every rally, at every speech, with every tweet, he spewed lies and verbally incites his cult. His speech goes beyond the cult as well. Hard right victrims, one who blame the mythical Left and being a white male for all the universes troubles. High on ideological heroin, their rhetoric becomes more incendiary and they rationalize violence as 'understandable'.

A recent poll showed 43% of surveyed self identified republicans believe the Capitol siege was justified. Millions, thanks to the proper application of Goebbel's Big Lie Theory, seemingly believe there was MASSIVE FRAUD that has overturned a MASSIVE LANDSLIDE. The years of spoon fed bullshit has culminated in a seditious attack on the Capitol.

Therein lies the problem. Without fettering freedom of speech, what is the proper response to constant, obvious, and insidious lies propagated by a national leader? How is that balanced? The political opposition and independents called out these lies for years to no avail. Reality is irrelevant to a cult. Unavoidable reality is rationalized away by the cult. Violent seditious rioting is the result.

How do you combat this assault on Truth? If millions on the right can be mesmerized by cult leader, it sure as hell can happen again with millions on the left. Truth can sometimes be limited to the eyes of the beholder, but the earth really is round. It is political flat earthers that have engaged in seditious behavior. How do you address this so it doesn't happen again?

[iam416]

That's one of the most horrific fucking posts I've read on this forum. And, I fear, it's what The Left will do. It's nice to see people put their cards on the table. The Purge is coming big time.

[AlabamAlum]

Using phrases like “thoughtcrime” has become so cliche, but -yeah- things become cliches for a reason, I guess.

[Ghengis Jon]

It doesn't matter if the lies are on the right or the left. When you create cults and use them to undermine this democracy, there's a problem and it should be addressed. My question is how without fettering free speech. How do you keep this from happening again without 'thoughtcrime'? I'm not speaking about political speech, I'm talking about truth and lies.

Editted to respond to AA

[iam416]

It's almost as if some weird dystopian prediction is coming to fruition (not the entire dystopia, but...still).

[iam416]

It doesn't matter if the lies are on the right or the left. When you create cults and use them to undermine this democracy, there's a problem and it should be addressed. My question is how without fettering free speech. You apparently think nothing should be done, let the risks fall where they may, and deal with the wreckage afterward. Fine, that's your opinion. Your "eeets da left" snow flake mode is duly noted.

Fortunately, the Supreme Court is also in "eeets da left" snow flak mode -- whatever the flying fuck that is.

Unfortunately, you'll get your authoritarian censorship way through the backdoor and private companies.

And it's remarkably fucking cute that anyoen thinks the right and left are treated the same here. It must be great to live in the land of purple unicorns.

HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT!