Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

Palenstine and trans-Jordan were Turkish territories that were ceded to the British after WWI. Britain controlled Palenstine until after WWII and agreed to the UN Partition. The Jewish folks accepted the partition and the Arabs fought it resulting in a war. And, of course, the Arabs lost -- as they always do to Israel.

So, it wasn't like there was some sort of free-standing Palestinian state for eons. It was a territory that went back and forth between strong countries. Then, when the strong decided to create independent states, the Arabs fought it and lost. And will continue to lose if they continue to fight.

[iam416]

My point was that the Trump peace plan fails entirely to consider or address where the situation on the ground is, today, as a result of the series of previous plans and agreements that became a part of history. It ignores them and in doing so it's garbage.

There is literally no point in proposing a peace plan when the Palestinians have zero interest in a two-state solution. Zero.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[Whitley]

Palenstine and trans-Jordan were Turkish territories that were ceded to the British after WWI. Britain controlled Palenstine until after WWII and agreed to the UN Partition. The Jewish folks accepted the partition and the Arabs fought it resulting in a war. And, of course, the Arabs lost -- as they always do to Israel.

So, it wasn't like there was some sort of free-standing Palestinian state for eons. It was a territory that went back and forth between strong countries. Then, when the strong decided to create independent states, the Arabs fought it and lost. And will continue to lose if they continue to fight.

So whoever is strong is right then? I find that rather dangerous thinking.

[Ghengis Jon]

There is literally no point in proposing a peace plan when the Palestinians have zero interest in a two-state solution. Zero.

Its the Arabs that oppose the two state solution. Palestinians are kept in camps, restricted in their travel, not allowed to apply for citizenship, endure abject poverty, have no employment opportunities, and suffer from a level of despair that breeds hatred and fanaticism. Whenever other Arab nations have rumblings among their own people, the authoritarian regimes point to the "Palestinian brothers" that are suffering more and for 'worse' reasons. By keeping camps and imposing draconian restrictions all in the name of "inevitable return", these regimes can deflect anger and violence away from themselves and toward their opponents. The generations of lip service the Arabs have spoken has provided economic reasons not to support a 2 state solution. It would require a massive amount of money to nation build a Palestinian state. And further seed money to administer. If the Palestinian problem goes away, then Arab citizens are going focus internally and say "now what about us?".

No, the Arabs want nothing to do with peaceful Israeli-Palestinian relations. Chaos is far more helpful. Hard to say if the Palestinians are simply eternal pawns, or perhaps tasty prawns at the geopolitical buffet.

[iam416]

So whoever is strong is right then? I find that rather dangerous thinking

[iam416]

[Dr. Strangelove]

Running with the Operation Chaos theme, Republicans in North Carolina have been gloating that they will interfere in the Dem primary for Senate to get the more left wing candidate nominated instead of the centrist. If they think this will work they had better turn out in much bigger numbers than their South Carolina friends did. NBC has a poll out showing the centrist (Cunningham) not only way ahead in the primary but up on Thom Tillis by 5 points in the general.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-polls-sanders-has-edge-texas-tied-biden-north-n1146021

[Ghengis Jon]

Israel is in favor but on their terms. Some are unreasonable, like you can have a sovereign state, but it must be eternally demilitarized. Last I checked, Israel hasn't offered to likewise demilitarize to appease Palestinian concerns. What has surprised me is that Israel hasn't just annexed what it wants and walk away from the rest saying "Fine. You're now a sovereign state. Have fun." What would the Arab world do? Suffer another 6 day war defeat? What would the UN do given the US is a permanent member of the Security Council?

Agreed, a bunch of idiots. Bloodthirsty, irrational idiots. If really wants to build a wall, build it around the entire middle east and let them happily kill each other.

[iam416]

[lineygoblue]

Jeff, I vaguely recall that discussion you had with Doc. It was a long time ago and I don't recall the details. Shoot, I have trouble recalling Howard Finebaum's real first name nowadays.

To me, the real telling point in the whole M.E. conflict, was when Yasser Arafat sat down with Ehud Barak and Bill Clinton at Camp David, and basically got everything he demanded, including a sovereign part of Jerusalem, as a basis for a Palestinian state. He walked away over two matters. First, he did not get a "right of return", which I believe I explained earlier. Secondly, he refused to confirm Israel's right to exist in Arabic.

Arafat was a sneaky little fellow. It was clearly understood in the Arab world, if Arafat spoke "in the language of the infidels", that his words could be ignored. He was not bound by those words, and neither was the PLO. However, if he spoke in Arabic, then anything he said was official. It was to be taken seriously, and placed into effect. He absolutely refused to confirm Israel's right to exist IN ARABIC. Even Hillary Clinton later commented how close a real peace deal was, only to see Arafat walk away over such a minor issue. But it was a major issue to Arafat, because he knew if he confirmed Israel's right to exist in Arabic, he probably wouldn't live a week afterward.

So, off he flew back to Ramallah, and started the Intifada. And most of the world continues to blame Israel for the conflict.

[Ghengis Jon]

The newest sport sweeping America.....Recliner Jumping!!!

https://twitter.com/Todd_Spence/status/1232785593320398848

[Dr. Strangelove]

Doctors now believe coronavirus has been spreading undetected in Washington state for the past SIX WEEKS

[Hannibal]

Doctors now believe coronavirus has been spreading undetected in Washington state for the past SIX WEEKS

There hardly seems to be a point in trying to quarantine folks since by the time you know that you have the virus, you have probably already spread it to a bunch of people.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Just like the Chinese may have been fudging the numbers on how many people have gotten sick, they may be fudging numbers on how much factory output has returned to normal. I saw an article on Bloomberg (can't find it now, else I'd link it) that pointed out that quite a few provincial governors are measuring factory activity by how much electricity is being consumed. This has led Commie Party chiefs, eager to please the overlords, to turn on machines in empty factories. Great Leap Forward sort of stuff.