Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Ghengis Jon]

....Yes. There will be an avalanche of bluster, but yes.....

To see the newscast of Trump being dragged out of the WH by the Marine Guard raging "You can't do this, don't you know who I am?!? I'm Donald Trump...."


What a pleasant image.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I get Crash's position on Trump. Mostly reflective of the, it's not a crime, or, it doesn't rise to the level of impeachable crowd. It's a similar line advanced during the Mueller saga......no collusion, no crimes, blah, blah.

I maintain the House has to have an iron clad case for impeachment, crime or no crime. It has to be simple to understand and the D messaging has to be likewise.

if Trump beats this, if he makes the case he's been wrongly pursued by his political enemies, he's likely to get reelected, Ds get swept out of office and he pursues his policies, most of which I support. I actually like this outcome better than a Warren win about a year from now.... Jon's assurances of only 4y of Warren notwithstanding. I'd give it a 15% chance of happening. That's about what most people thought were Trump's chances for winning the presidency.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I get Crash's position on Trump. Mostly reflective of the, it's not a crime, or, it doesn't rise to the level of impeachable crowd. It's a similar line advanced during the Mueller saga......no collusion, no crimes, blah, blah.

I maintain the House has to have an iron clad case for impeachment, crime or no crime. It has to be simple to understand and the D messaging has to be likewise.

if Trump beats this, if he makes the case he's been wrongly pursued by his political enemies, he's likely to get reelected, Ds get swept out of office and he pursues his policies, most of which I support. I actually like this outcome better than a Warren win about a year from now.... Jon's assurances of only 4y of Warren notwithstanding. I'd give it a 15% chance of happening. That's about what most people thought were Trump's chances for winning the presidency.

In the Mueller investigation people were being asked to impeach the President for obstructing an investigation into what a non-existent crime.

In this case, I continue to maintain, Trump's actions were a lot simpler and direct. He asked a foreign government to cooperate with his private attorney and investigate a political enemy. Period. You either think that's perfectly fine or not. I've stated that I'm not sure there's anything criminal about it, but it's fairly despicable. I don't know if you care to make this case, Jeff, but the idea that Trump was just genuinely worried about corruption in Ukraine is LAUGHABLE to me. He's never brought this up with any other country. The one country where he's suddenly concerned just happens to be the one that he can use to politically damage Joe Biden.

And the two examples of corruption in Ukraine that he cites during the phone both just happen to relate to Democrats. One, the inane "Crowdstrike and Ukraine framed the Russians to help the DNC" theory, and two, the Bidens. Those are the only specific things he laid out as "corruption in Ukraine" that he wanted investigated as a "favor".

We don't have all the facts yet about what else may have happened and how much effort the administration made to hide this 'perfect call'. But I would say that there are already a good deal more people that are convinced that the President did something morally/ethically wrong than ever were during Mueller. Support for impeaching Trump was at its highest in the low 30's during the Mueller stuff. It's in the low to mid 40's right now.

Oh, and don't trust that crash gets all his facts right (he doesn't). Biden wasn't 'under investigation' at the time Shokin was fired.

From Wiki but go ahead and verify the articles yourself:

"Shokin claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings.

^{[27][28][29][30]}

However, Vitaliy Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016 citing corruption in the office, provided documents to Bloomberg News indicating that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant.

^[31]

Also, the investigation into Burisma only pertained to events happening before Hunter Biden joined the company.

^[32]"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/timeline-in-ukraine-probe-casts-doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine-buris/ukraine-agency-says-allegations-against-burisma-cover-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV

[froot loops]

I think the cake is already baked whether there is impeachment or not. A big factor helping Trump in 2016 was the amount of undecideds heading into the election. I think there was around 13 undecideds at the end of the election season. It was a direct contrast to the 2012 election where there were only something like 3 percent undecided. Nate Silver has said this a lot about the election, his model got like 49 states or 50 states in 2012 but it was basically because the polls were stable, everyone had decided early. It wasn't like that in 2016, a lot of late breakers, I can't see a scenario where there is many undecideds at all.

It doesn't mean he can't win, I don't think he's flipping anyone on a "woe is me impeachment" strategy. By 2020 the general public will have heard this victimization card he's played for 5 years. It's not going to attract any new votes, just the die hards. It is also hard to see a scenario where the GOP would gain back the House based on anti-impeachment backlash. You have to actually field candidates that are impressive and its getting late in the game for that. They are getting retirements and not new recruits.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Let me be clear. While I get Crash's position, that does not mean I'm among those that embrace it. I gave up my position of trying to support the presidency without supporting the person who held that office a while ago.

I'm squarely among voters who want to see the impeachment process go ahead. My concern continues to be that the D's lack the leadership and political skills to push this through in a manner that makes it a slam dunk the Senate will not dismiss the articles but instead try Trump. He wont survive a trial if I understand the facts presently at hand.

[Tom W]

It doesn't mean he can't win, I don't think he's flipping anyone on a "woe is me impeachment" strategy. By 2020 the general public will have heard this victimization card he's played for 5 years. It's not going to attract any new votes, just the die hards. It is also hard to see a scenario where the GOP would gain back the House based on anti-impeachment backlash. You have to actually field candidates that are impressive and its getting late in the game for that. They are getting retirements and not new recruits.

But it will also mean that the Dems will have wasted a complete 4 year term with obsessing about resisting Trump while pandering to illegals, gender confused and climate correction fantasies. In other words, they will have done nothing at all for a significant majority of Americans. We'll still be getting phone calls to lower our credit card interest and extend our car warranties right up to moment when we walk up to the polls. It will not be a happy time.

[Ghengis Jon]

IF it goes to impeachment, Moscow Mitch is the wild card. He has already stated that if Articles arrive at the Senate, a trial will occur. That is the correct thing to do, by current Senate rules. A simple majority can change Senate rules and the GOP with a single vote could enable McConnell to not bring the trial to the floor. But he has other arrows in the quiver. He could make the allowable rules of evidence such that completely hobbles whatever the Dems bring forth. Cynically, that's what I think will happen.

I stand by the economy tanking under Warren/Sanders, making that person a one term wonder. The normal business cycle plus additional spending (Everything Free For Everybody) without increased income will doom a hard left leaning president. People vote with their pocketbooks when they get hurt, not so much when its just bumps in the road.

[Ghengis Jon]

Holy fuck. Sanders is out. Biden must be sweating bullets now, the hard left is no longer split between Warren and Sanders.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/bernie-sanders-artery-blockage-2020/index.html

[Dr. Strangelove]

Holy fuck. Sanders is out. Biden must be sweating bullets now, the hard left is no longer split between Warren and Sanders.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/bernie-sanders-artery-blockage-2020/index.html

Not quite out but could be soon

Pity the poor President of Finland today

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump repeated again that he demands to know the whistleblower's identity. The reporter told him that several Republican Senators had raised the issue of protecting the whistle-blowers identity and Trump said he didn't care. Only "legitimate" whistleblowers get protection, implying this one isn't legitimate.

[froot loops]

President Mobster should go beat him up.

[Ghengis Jon]

...Trump said he didn't care. Only "legitimate" whistle blowers get protection, implying this one isn't legitimate...

Wish we had a "legitimate" president.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Wish we had a "legitimate" president.

He's a "legitimate" businessman

[THE_WIZARD_]

...and Leon is getting LARGER!!!

[Dr. Strangelove]