Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

These are all numbers from a group that greatly advocates that it's all a funding issue:

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/a-lost-decade-in-higher-education-funding

State funding for universities dropped by about 10% nationally from 2008 to 2017 (pre-great recession to, well, 2017). From 2013 to 2017, state funding has increased nationally. INCREASED. If this is a matter of state funding then the tuition hikes would be, well, roughly 10% for 2008 (it's not, it's 35%). If this were a matter of state funding then tuition would not have increased from 2013 to 2017 -- LOL.

In Michigan, the cuts were 16% (Ohio was 15%, Georgia was also 15%). In Michigan, tuition rose 26%. In Georgia, tuition rose 75%. In Ohio, despite "deep slashing" tuition only rose 4.8% Perhaps it's because:

As tuition soared after the recession, federal financial aid increased. Total Pell Grant aid, the nation's primary source of student grant aid, rose by 68 percent between the 2008 and 2016 school years. This substantial boost has enabled the program not only to reach more students ? 2 million more students received Pell support last year than in 2008 ? but also to provide the average recipient with more support.^[45] The average grant rose by 23 percent, to $3,724 from $3,034.^[46]

Meanwhile, it's crystal clear what's driving the accumulation of debt -- for-profit schools. The University of Phoenix has an astounding $35.5B in debt owed it. The next highest schools in the country are Walden ($9.8B) and Nova Southeastern ($8.7B). No non-profit cracks the top 10 ($1.3B threshold).

These schools are the worst kind of gambles. It's not the traditional universities that are producing crushing debt -- crushing in relation to the value of the degree. It's the for-profits. And why are people going to these types of schools. Welp, Hannibal nailed. He is absolutely right when he says:

The basic fundamental reason that college costs so much is "because they can". They can because kids will go to college at any cost, and they will get the money to do it. The kids will do it at any price for both psychological reasons and practical ones. As a result, there is no corrective mechanism for inefficiency and misuse of funds.

[Hannibal]

Froot -- the easiest thing for me to show is the long term trend. It dates back at least to the early 80s. On this graph, it looks like tuition outpaces inflation every year since 1980-ish.

college-tuition.png


When I entered college back in 1991, funding cuts were already being blamed for skyrocketing tuition costs. The excuse remains today. Funding may have fluctuated in this time period but we have not had 40 years of uninterrupted government funding cuts.

I looked at the financial statements for the University of Michigan to see if there could be some explanation for these increases. I compared the 2007 financial statement with the 2018 financial statement.

Here they are if you are interested...

http://www.finance.umich.edu/reports/2007/pdf/2007_financial_report_h.pdf

(Page 67)

https://2018.annualreport.umich.edu/

(Page 2)

I am not an accountant, but what I see there doesn't show a cut in state funding as being responsible for the massive increase in tuition that has occurred in that time.

Total net tuition + student housing in 2007: $799 Million
Total net tuition + student housing in 2018: #1,428 Million

That's pretty much perfectly consistent with the national trend. A 78% increase when the CPI increased by only 21%.


State education appropriations in 2007: $332 Million
State education appropriations in 2018: $363 Million

A 10% increase vs. 21% inflation. A slight dropoff in real dollars? Yes. Material? No, not compared to tuition costs.


Total Federal State, and Local Grants and Contracts in 2007: $708 Million
Total Federal State, and Local Grants and Contracts in 2007: $993 Million

41% increase vs 21% inflation. Government funding for grants and contracts went up. Significantly.


So why the tuition increase?

There might be a pretty obvious cause:

Total compensation and benefits in 2007: $2,962 Million
Total compensation and benefits in 2018: $5,431 Million

Total operating expenses in 2007: $4,434 Million
Total operation expenses in 2018: $8,559 Million

That's a 93% increase in operating expenses. An 83% increase in salaries and benefits. JFC. It legitimately costs 93% more to run a university than it did 11 years prior? Bullshit.

[Hannibal]

I didn't watch the debate last night. Watched a few highlights. I have said for a while that I don't think that Biden will get the nomination. He has nothing going for him other than name recognition. That and I guess he is the "moderate" alternative but I doubt that will be enough.

[froot loops]

After you adjust for inflation for MSU per student appropriation from the state government is 30 percent lower than it was in 1975. So its not an excuse its a factor, but it's not the only factor. I never said it was and I won't defend these alleged doomsayers of 1991 that impressioned you so negatively There are many other factors, attack them as well. But at the very least public universities should be funded to the same level as they were when you bootstrappers complaining about the youngsters of today. The public education system in the USA is a great advantage for the nation, its a shame that people want to cut the support of it.

If you want to go after for profit colleges, please do but you certainly won't find a friend in that endeavor with Betsy Devos.

Like I said a few posts back, people keep on focusing on the micro-economic part of it. But the macro-economic view is very important, if you want to compete economically with other countries you need to increase higher education. Sure not everyone is cut out for college and the trades are a another option but I think you need to find ways to make college more affordable. Sorry. Mayor Pete Buttigieg had a good line about it in last night's debates.

"We have to recognize that the China challenge is a serious one. This is not something to dismiss or waive away. China is using technology for the perfection of dictatorship. Manufacturers and especially farmers are hurting. Tariffs are taxes and Americans pay $800 more a year because of the tariffs. Meanwhile, China is investing so they could soon be able to run circles around us in artificial intelligence and this president is fixated on the relationship as if all that mattered was the balance on dishwashers. We have a moment when their authoritarian model is an alternative to ours because ours looks so chaotic because of internal divisions. The biggest thing we have to do is invest in our own domestic competitiveness."

[Cody_Russell]

I didn't watch the debate last night. Watched a few highlights. I have said for a while that I don't think that Biden will get the nomination. He has nothing going for him other than name recognition. That and I guess he is the "moderate" alternative but I doubt that will be enough.

There you go. Nice!
My Biden to Jeb Bush/ Newt Gingrich comparison (prediction) looks a little better today.

[froot loops]

It's actually "your" which you'd know if you had a zest for liberal art electives.

[AlabamAlum]

lol

[Cody_Russell]

Damn you iPhone autocorrect and me not re-reading.
DEM electives should have taught better...

[froot loops]

Of more important matters, get Horan in there pronto.

[iam416]

[crashcourse]

military does it riight

bachelors after cramming it down your throat for 2 years as long as you had CLEP'd out a year or so

clepping was the shit

[crashcourse]

thanks for the congrats iam dsl et al'

be off line for awhile going to meet the new booss and look for a house or at least a rental

have a safe and happy 4th holiday weekend
go usa except rapinone can suck a big pile of something she hates

[Ghengis Jon]

Apple is moving assembly production of the MacPro from Texas to China because it can't find enough skilled workers willing to work for minimum wage, according to the Wall Street Journal.

https://www.apnews.com/8fb369a3b855437b91c1d0f9067dc794

[Jeff Buchanan]

You'll recognize that I trust the global stock markets to correctly reflect what's going on and distrust, no actually, do not believe most of what comes out of the WH, any of it's principals or the news media. So here's what's going on from my Market Watch news feed:

.

But, let's be clear hear, according to reports we are subjected to on a daily basis, the Trump administration is full of bumbling idiots who issue contradictory statements and have trouble wiping their asses let alone dealing with the nation's business.

Also:

College is too expensive and is so becasue "it can be." Any program that collapses the money grab, I'll support it.

Electives are good but learning the things you need to learn to succeed in your field of choice trumps that by a large margin. If you want to cut things to make college less expensive on the back end, cut electives not the hard sciences that underlie degrees in the medical,engineering, communications and computer fields, including AI.

[froot loops]

Did they not have electives back in the day when you went to college?