Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

[Ghengis Jon]

I think this story is scripted from start to finish. It's a message: You have reached the red line. No more second chances.

A good message.

[froot loops]

I am extremely impressed with the interchange in the Situation Room that only addressed civilian casualties 10 minutes before the strike. Its like a movie and Trump is your hero bravely sparing peoples lives.

[Jeff Buchanan]

[froot loops]

[iam416]

[Jeff Buchanan]

Some more insight on Iran thanks to a NYT podcast where only the last 6 minutes of it were informative. It contained a cut and dried question that ostensibly attempted to answer the question, "how is this conflict between the US and Iran going to be resolved." Spoiler they didn't answer it ..... no surprise there. Its the NYT editorial staff.

The interviewee postulated that the outcome of the current conflict depends on what the administrations goal's are and he implies, as does most of the press, that those goals aren't clear. It's offered that on one side are the Hawks who most think want regime change led by John Bolton and MIke Pompeo and on the other are mostly liberals, some within State, others outside the WH in the US and the EU arguing for dialogue and negotiations.

Obviously, Bolton has a history of advocating for regime change in Iran. Pompeo issued his "12 Points" declaration that outlined what Iran had to do if it wanted to make a deal with the US. That amounted to demands to disarm then we'll talk. Governments are not going to come to the bargaining table with no bargaining chips. That's where Iran would be if it complied with those "12 Points." The events of the last two weeks in the Straights of Hormuz have been characterized as Iran's way of gaining leverage.

I don't think there is anyone in the administration who is articulating a negotiating strategy, Pompeo's "12 Points' notwithstanding but those aren't really a negotiating pathway for the two sides. They are a demand for Iran to go fuck itself. Shummer and Pelosi talk about negotiating but offer no plan about the endgame of such negotiations or a strategy to undertake them. I think the administration has been very clear on it's goals ....... force Iran to the negotiating table by strangling them economically and then comply with Pompeo's "12 Points" or your own citizens will help the US and it's ME allies take down the present Iranian regime. Not hard to understand.

Therefore, the outcome of the conflict depends almost entirely on what Iran does or can be talked into doing by third parties. Japan has failed spectacularly in what appeared to be effort #1. I don't think the EU can do it as the Iranians have already given them the finger for not being willing to bail them out of the impact of sanctions. So far, it's half-time and the score is the world 1, Iran 0.

The hardliners are keeping the Islamic Iranian Republic going by demanding more austerity, locking up political opponents and stiffing public dissent. Other countries who want to eliminate US presence in the ME or disable US strategic objectives in the region are cooperating with Iran's current regime by helping them with money and/or goods. IVO this circumstance, it seems to me that forcing the collapse of the Iranian regime is a completely appropriate end game. The Mullahs have few options. Sure, they can make a mess of shipping in the Straights but by doing so, they will gain the enmity of most of the world who absolutely depends on an uninterrupted flow of oil through that strategically important geographic choke point. The outcry of an area denial operations by Iran would be substantial and all the US would have to do is coalesce an international naval force to keep the straights open. A noble mission if there ever was one.

With this backdrop, I can see the likelihood that the shoot down and everything that followed was a nicely scripted undertaking. The Iranians appear to be the aggressor and bad guys with the black hats (or trubins as the case might be) with evil intentions of blocking the Straights of Hormuz, the Americans are the good guys in white hats once again keeping the world free and insuring freedom of navigation in international waters. Nice job Donald ...... apparently listening to those around you who are a lot smarter than you are.

[Ghengis Jon]

The press is lapping the story up. "Dramatic turn around by Donald Trump", "Trump's unknown humanitarian side", "Trump's last moment overrule of Bolton".

What a bunch of maroons.

[froot loops]

Indeed

[Dr. Strangelove]

56 pages of Sean Hannity texting with Paul Manafort from when his house was raided up until conviction. These were unsealed today. Mostly just embarrassing for Hannity. Manafort is so clearly flattering and manipulating him to work as a virtual PR agent.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6165129-Texts-Messages-Between-Paul-Manafort-Sean-Hannity.html

[Dr. Strangelove]

Some more insight on Iran thanks to a NYT podcast where only the last 6 minutes of it were informative. It contained a cut and dried question that ostensibly attempted to answer the question, "how is this conflict between the US and Iran going to be resolved." Spoiler they didn't answer it ..... no surprise there. Its the NYT editorial staff.

The interviewee postulated that the outcome of the current conflict depends on what the administrations goal's are and he implies, as does most of the press, that those goals aren't clear. It's offered that on one side are the Hawks who most think want regime change led by John Bolton and MIke Pompeo and on the other are mostly liberals, some within State, others outside the WH in the US and the EU arguing for dialogue and negotiations.

Obviously, Bolton has a history of advocating for regime change in Iran. Pompeo issued his "12 Points" declaration that outlined what Iran had to do if it wanted to make a deal with the US. That amounted to demands to disarm then we'll talk. Governments are not going to come to the bargaining table with no bargaining chips. That's where Iran would be if it complied with those "12 Points." The events of the last two weeks in the Straights of Hormuz have been characterized as Iran's way of gaining leverage.

I don't think there is anyone in the administration who is articulating a negotiating strategy, Pompeo's "12 Points' notwithstanding but those aren't really a negotiating pathway for the two sides. They are a demand for Iran to go fuck itself. Shummer and Pelosi talk about negotiating but offer no plan about the endgame of such negotiations or a strategy to undertake them. I think the administration has been very clear on it's goals ....... force Iran to the negotiating table by strangling them economically and then comply with Pompeo's "12 Points" or your own citizens will help the US and it's ME allies take down the present Iranian regime. Not hard to understand.

Therefore, the outcome of the conflict depends almost entirely on what Iran does or can be talked into doing by third parties. Japan has failed spectacularly in what appeared to be effort #1. I don't think the EU can do it as the Iranians have already given them the finger for not being willing to bail them out of the impact of sanctions. So far, it's half-time and the score is the world 1, Iran 0.

The hardliners are keeping the Islamic Iranian Republic going by demanding more austerity, locking up political opponents and stiffing public dissent. Other countries who want to eliminate US presence in the ME or disable US strategic objectives in the region are cooperating with Iran's current regime by helping them with money and/or goods. IVO this circumstance, it seems to me that forcing the collapse of the Iranian regime is a completely appropriate end game. The Mullahs have few options. Sure, they can make a mess of shipping in the Straights but by doing so, they will gain the enmity of most of the world who absolutely depends on an uninterrupted flow of oil through that strategically important geographic choke point. The outcry of an area denial operations by Iran would be substantial and all the US would have to do is coalesce an international naval force to keep the straights open. A noble mission if there ever was one.

With this backdrop, I can see the likelihood that the shoot down and everything that followed was a nicely scripted undertaking. The Iranians appear to be the aggressor and bad guys with the black hats (or trubins as the case might be) with evil intentions of blocking the Straights of Hormuz, the Americans are the good guys in white hats once again keeping the world free and insuring freedom of navigation in international waters. Nice job Donald ...... apparently listening to those around you who are a lot smarter than you are.

Do you think Bolton announcing new sanctions just days before Abe went to Tehran had anything to do with why Japan "failed spectaculrly"?

Have to admire your persistence in believing that everything is going exactly as planned.

Oh and American boys grow up dreaming of one day defending the Straits of Hormuz for shipping traffic...LOL, noble mission if there ever was one indeed.

[froot loops]

They get to wear a White Hat, so there's that.

[Dr. Strangelove]

New Trump accuser says he assaulted her back in the 90's in a Manhattan dept store dressing room. Says she never came forward because he was a lot richer and more powerful than she was. And more recently she knew she'd be bombarded by death threats and hate mail should she ever mention it.

She's not a household name (or at least I don't really know her) but she was a respected editor, tv host, and advice columnist

Trump says he's never even met her but there's a photo of them together in the article. Not that Trump could possibly remember everyone he's ever been in a photo with but this woman isn't a nobody. She was very well known on the social scene in Manhattan in the 80's and 90's.

If you didn't believe any of Trump's previous 15 accusers or any of the Roy Moore accusers, you probably won't believe her either.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...ccusation.html

[froot loops]

[Dr. Strangelove]

The Trump Republican split over Iran is going to be fascinating to watch. Don't let anyone tell you that only liberals and progs oppose open war.

Tucker went guns-a-blazin against John Bolton tonight. Although he, along with many others, mischaracterize Bolton as a neoconservative. He is NOT.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/21/t...n-bolton-iran/