Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

They have to "re-work" the plan. Takes time. Possibly even another vote.

I dunno. I'm pessimistic enough to say there are enough unbudgeable extremists in Parliament right now that no plan can be created to win over enough votes. That includes the Hard Brexiters, the Far Left, and the DUP Irish folks.

[AlabamAlum]

I never thought the EU was a great plan for the UK. They pay a lot of money in, they give up control of immigration, and have to follow a host of nonsensical rules and laws that the EU sets. The EU, above all, is a huge bureaucracy. A bureaucracy that makes US politics look streamlined.

That said, most Scots favor staying, including my own family, so maybe the EU isn't all bad.

[Hannibal]

The electoral college was conceived for an entirely different purpose than for what it is now. With that said, I don't feel particularly bad about winning an election while losing the popular vote since the only reason for that loss is demographic changes.

Anyhow, Dems don't have to worry. Texas will be blue by 2024 and the debate won't even matter. And if not 2024, then 2028. Whatever the year, it's in our lifetimes for sure. Final victory is just a matter of time. It's why a Dem candidate like Yang is now openly calling for a Ministry of Truth to censor free speech. There's not much of a reason to worry that the machine that they set up with be used against them.

[Hannibal]

Johnny Isakson says he plans to deliver Trump a 'whipping' today. Says he's heard enough and will stand up for McCain.

https://thebulwark.com/exclusive-sen...oads-on-trump/

Phew! What a relief. Somebody finally criticizing Trump!

[froot loops]

You can give those folks 3 months or 3 years, there's no workable solution to what they want. They don't actually know what they want other than not being in the EU but getting all the benefits of being in the EU. Its all very stupid.

[AlabamAlum]

You can give those folks 3 months or 3 years, there's no workable solution to what they want. They don't actually know what they want other than not being in the EU but getting all the benefits of being in the EU. Its all very stupid.

They want to trade with Europe, and they have for a millennia without the EU, and there is no reason they cannot continue that practice except for punitive action towards the UK by the EU itself.

I would lose my mind at a conglomeration of countries setting laws for the US. At best, the EU should be a trade and economic pact, but they threw way too much into it. The EU ruling on whether or not some British housewife can use a colored incandescent light bulb, rules on what what foods can and cannot be sold, as well as draconian rules on farming, kids blowing up balloons unsupervised (not kidding), and mandating open borders for immigration between countries.

It was way too much. The UK should have flatly rejected it until it was less obtrusive before adopting. They didn't and now they have buyer's remorse and the EU will make they hurt with withdrawal penalties and trade sanctions.

[froot loops]

But the EU isn't merely a trade and economic pact like the EEC was. Its not going back to that arrangement. Brexit means they were pulling out of that trade and economic pact, it makes no sense for the other countries to allow them to stay into that. They can still trade with Europe, they aren't just going to get the benefits of being in the EU as it should be. They'll have to try and negotiate an agreement after the exit. A three month extension isn't going to change that.

[Dr. Strangelove]

They want to trade with Europe, and they have for a millennia without the EU, and there is no reason they cannot continue that practice except for punitive action towards the UK by the EU itself.

I would lose my mind at a conglomeration of countries setting laws for the US. At best, the EU should be a trade and economic pact, but they threw way too much into it. The EU ruling on whether or not some British housewife can use a colored incandescent light bulb, rules on what what foods can and cannot be sold, as well as draconian rules on farming, kids blowing up balloons unsupervised (not kidding), and mandating open borders for immigration between countries.

It was way too much. The UK should have flatly rejected it until it was less obtrusive before adopting. They didn't and now they have buyer's remorse and the EU will make they hurt with withdrawal penalties and trade sanctions.

I think a lot of what you're mentioning came about as a result of the shift to a common currency which is when the EU really may have made a mistake. The UK joined the EU a couple decades before that, as I recall. So there's an argument to be made that the UK didn't actually sign up for a lot of the regulatory stuff.

But at the same time, from the EU's point of view, they bent over backwards again and again trying to appease The Brits' demands to be given special treatment (not having to adopt the euro or join the Schengen area are just two examples of many).

I think a lot of the UK's complaints about the EU are legit (lots of other countries have had complaints too). But for me at least I have a real problem separating the legit complaints from delusional feelings spread by patriotic fanatics who think Britain's place in the world is no different today than at Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee. Expecting the UK to get favorable treatment from the EU and the US in trade deals once they were out was ALWAYS unrealistic.

[AlabamAlum]

I know it wasn't just a trade and economic pact, but that's what it should have been. It should have strengthened the EEC, added a few countries, and called it done. The Brexit folks have very legitimate gripes. Brussels immediately became the overreaching ruling bureaucracy that many feared they would become. As far as trade afterwards (especially a "hard" Brexit), a lot depends on what kind of deal May can negotiate and how punitive the EU will become.

They need the three months so that the negotiations can begin. UK can't come to the table in any meaningful way if London hasn't agreed on a plan. Now, will May be able to change the plan enough to get Bercow to allow a vote AND get it past the House? I dunno. But a delay at this point was needed because she has to try.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I never thought that the Britts should become part of the EU way back when. It sounded good and wasn't a bad idea as a free trade sort of thing as the EEC had proven. But it had a ton of shit in it that should have been a huge stop-sign involving exactly the kind of stuff AA mentions. Buyer's remorse is an apt term to apply to the British Parliament's failure to understand the full consequences of signing up for Helmut Kohl's and Francois Mitterand's plan to "unify Europe." Crazy shit then and there were plenty of contrarians, Margaret Thatcher, then PM, was one of them.

[iam416]

The EU, above all, is a huge bureaucracy. A bureaucracy that makes US politics look streamlined.

I would lose my mind at a conglomeration of countries setting laws for the US. At best, the EU should be a trade and economic pact, but they threw way too much into it. The EU ruling on whether or not some British housewife can use a colored incandescent light bulb, rules on what what foods can and cannot be sold, as well as draconian rules on farming, kids blowing up balloons unsupervised (not kidding), and mandating open borders for immigration between countries.

Brussels immediately became the overreaching ruling bureaucracy that many feared they would become

Correct. Correct. Correct. 3 for 3! AlabamAlum is on FIRE!

[AlabamAlum]

I think a lot of what you're mentioning came about as a result of the shift to a common currency which is when the EU really may have made a mistake. The UK joined the EU a couple decades before that, as I recall. So there's an argument to be made that the UK didn't actually sign up for a lot of the regulatory stuff.

But at the same time, from the EU's point of view, they bent over backwards again and again trying to appease The Brits' demands to be given special treatment (not having to adopt the euro or join the Schengen area are just two examples of many).

I think a lot of the UK's complaints about the EU are legit (lots of other countries have had complaints too). But for me at least I have a real problem separating the legit complaints from delusional feelings spread by patriotic fanatics who think Britain's place in the world is no different today than at Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee. Expecting the UK to get favorable treatment from the EU and the US in trade deals once they were out was ALWAYS unrealistic.

Yeah, good post. And completely agreed on most. There are some wackadoos on both sides of this. There needs to be at least a nod toward nation autonomy. Mandating that a British grandma will no longer be able to buy a tea kettle like she had before because the EU didn't feel it was energy efficient enough was asking for trouble (etc, etc) and controlling immigration is a huge deal. It's just a fact that people from the poorer countries will travel to the countries with a better social network. And I have an issue with Brussels, not London, controlling that.

[iam416]

If it ends up being a hard exit and, by some miracle, the UK doesn't implode or suffer serious harm, then I predict the end of the EU. There are enough countries out there that want nothing to do with the Brussels Technocracy but are scared to death to leave. If the UK survives then the trail is blazed. It's also why the EU won't do jack shit to reach a sensible accord with the UK. The EU desperately needs any UK exit to fail.

[froot loops]

May has been negotiating on this for a long time, what would be the catalyst this time for the principles to weaken their demands? They haven't had any answers yet, its been a real joke. Most of the fools who championed the Leave campaign have headed for the exits.

The problem with calling the EU punitive on any post exit trade talks is that might be a euphemism for the EU not being generous enough to Britain in any agreement. Most trade agreements involve nations self-interest, Britain may be finding out they aren't the prize trading partner they think they are.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Is George Conway related to Tim Conway?