Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[AlabamAlum]

I have a friend whose son was failing in college. He pulled him out and sent him to a tech school in the area for his Stick, TIG, and MIG welding certifications. Took about 9 months to get all three. The kid is now making $40/hr and has more work than he wants. It's not his dream job. But he likes being able to buy groceries. My friend's daughter has two masters degrees and is making $14/hr as a substitute teacher and is still living at home.

Not sure of the moral of that story, perhaps it is dream jobs are nice as long as you can pay your bills? Pragmatism is the mother of eating? It's there somewhere.

[iam416]

A conservative summary of Democrat [Socialist] plans, most of which will probably make the 2020 platform in an effort to return us to the 1980s: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...d-unrealistic/

It'll be interesting to see how these proposals play off the coast and then whether they play worse than the visceral reaction to PDJT. I'm still of the mind the Ds win in 2018 and 2020 before getting lambasted in 2022. However, following the Balderson-O'Connor special election in OH-12 is pretty interesting --O'Connor attack ads focus on tried and true talking points -- Balderson wants to raise the social security age! or take away medicare. He has not run a single ad attacking PDJT. Balderson, meanwhile, is running one O'Connor=Pelosi ad after another. So, it'll be an interesting snapshot into November -- I assume that's it's going to be a very close election because it's an August special election and the Ds should really have the motivation advantage (it's an R +8-10 district). The really odd thing about it is that they then run again in November for the same seat, but most people think the winner in August wins in November.

[froot loops]

In the IT field automation is the big buzzword. Some of it is that they want to reduce headcount, a lot of it is you want to free up resources to do other projects instead of spending time resetting passwords.

The point about not wanting to go to the work is an important one. Back in the salad days of the 50s there was still mass migration to jobs within the US to where the jobs were. That is not the case now.

[iam416]

I have a friend whose son was failing in college. He pulled him out and sent him to a tech school in the area for his Stick, TIG, and MIG welding certifications. Took about 9 months to get all three. The kid is now making $40/hr and has more work than he wants. It's not his dream job. But he likes being able to buy groceries. My friend's daughter has two masters degrees and is making $14/hr as a substitute teacher and is still living at home.

Not sure of the moral of that story, perhaps it is dream jobs are nice as long as you can pay your bills? Pragmatism is the mother of eating? It's there somewhere.

Once we start paying for degrees and make it so that everyone, whether qualified or not, can go to a 4-yr school, we're going to want some say in what we're paying for. And believe, there is a 4-yr school for EVERYONE out there -- in Ohio, it may not be OSU, but I guarantee you Cleveland State or YSU will take your damn money. Anyway, once we start paying for it, we're going to want to see ROI. We have "No Child Left Behind" for high schools. Standards will have to be place for colleges. I'm not inclined to pay for any sort of horrific "studies" degree.

The technical jobs are there, the training is there and the cost makes sense. They're not as valuable as the more common degrees, but they are certainly more valuable than a lot of degrees.

I'm not sure what my kids will end up doing. If they end up at a 2-year school or in a certification program, that's quite alright with me.

As an aside, the whole "dream job" thing is an awful canard. Work involves working and a fair amount of drudgery. Even if, e.g., your dream job is unfathomably being a lawyer -- you're still going to spend hours upon hours doing terrifically mundane tasks. Embrace reality.

[iam416]

The point about not wanting to go to the work is an important one. Back in the salad days of the 50s there was still mass migration to jobs within the US to where the jobs were. That is not the case now.

Accepting this as true (and, TBH, I don't know if either or both ends of the comparison are -- but I'll take your word for it)....so, accepting this as true, why? Why wouldn't people move to where jobs are? Why aren't they motivated to work? Or, put another way, why are they willing to stay in a shithole instead of relocating to work? What has changed in the American ethos? I'm curious as to your thoughts -- and not to just ask questions and play games, I find it hard not to factor in the alteration of the cost/benefit analysis by the emergence of government benefits -- benefits which are bare subsistence.

But, to go back to the initial point -- I'm really not sure if there is an actual problem when it comes to migration or if it's not a way to scapegoat, e.g., welfare recipients (as I just did!). Portsmouth, Ohio may totally suck -- and it does -- but there are still jobs to be done there.

[hack]

Certainly telling kids that they should follow their passion, can have it all, etc. etc. was a mistake. People have outsized expectations for jobs, when, in reality, the point is to make a living and if you can derive some sort of additional satisfaction from it that's a bonus. And of course the market figured out that people following their passion had less leverage in salary negotiations.

But, no matter what, society kicks back like a mule when it's not ready for something. You can tell all those people that they are an anomaly in human history because they expect opportunity to come to them rather than going to it, but it's not like they are going to en masse think about it and change their behavior.

[crashcourse]

puter is still around

selling his Tennessee tailgaiting van I think because the parking spot was turned over to the press or something like that

here's a c;lassic puter moment

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread


No idea who is going to win, but I see the hyperbole is in full effect.

I believe the exit polls will be way off and will over estimate her and underestimate him. Go ahead and laugh but there are lots of folks out there who are voting Trump, but don't want to be harassed so they don't talk about it. I didn't put Trump sticker on wife's car for that very reason and I'm in East TN.

This will be reflected in the lateness of calls as the actual vote will not match the exit polls. Will it be enough to turn MI, CO, NH, NC, FL, NV, PA, VA red? My guess is Philly comes through with 300% turnout again with somehow having zero votes for Trump not even by mistake, NC goes trump maybe before 10pm, CO probably stays blue but very close, FL/OH both go red..OH 1st as S.FL will once again be last to report by hours as they try and figure out if they can manufacture enough votes but maybe not till 11 or later, Reid abuse may power NV her way in which case he needs MI which won't be called for awhile. NH only matters if he wins NV and loses MI+PA+VA. To many morons moving south because they hate taxes etc but then vote like they did in northeast.

I've got some Woodford in the tail gate van either way.

Criminal vs. Crass = Crass ALL day long. I'm even supporting Brady and Belichick now.

But just imagine...would it not be glorious to see CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC losing their collective minds if they have to declare Trump the winner?

[iam416]

Heh.

[crashcourse]

by all accounts manafort is guilty as hell

gates will drive that final nail

but as others have said--trump canned him early and its doubtful Mueller gats anything out of this except the moral victory of having one of his indictments come to fruition

i

[Dr. Strangelove]

Are we supposed to treat Trump tweets seriously or not? If so, he pretty much just ordered Jeff Sessions to end the Russia investigation. The most direct order to date.

[froot loops]

Accepting this as true (and, TBH, I don't know if either or both ends of the comparison are -- but I'll take your word for it)....so, accepting this as true, why? Why wouldn't people move to where jobs are? Why aren't they motivated to work? Or, put another way, why are they willing to stay in a shithole instead of relocating to work? What has changed in the American ethos? I'm curious as to your thoughts -- and not to just ask questions and play games, I find it hard not to factor in the alteration of the cost/benefit analysis by the emergence of government benefits -- benefits which are bare subsistence.

But, to go back to the initial point -- I'm really not sure if there is an actual problem when it comes to migration or if it's not a way to scapegoat, e.g., welfare recipients (as I just did!). Portsmouth, Ohio may totally suck -- and it does -- but there are still jobs to be done there.

I'm not sure, maybe moving is harder than it used to be. You might think you can get a better job in another region but it is a gamble. Back during the boom times of Detroit you were nearly guaranteed to get a much higher paying job, it wasn't really a gamble.

If you don't have a pot to piss in, packing up the family and moving across the nation is a pretty frightening thought.

[AlabamAlum]

And the kid who is welding moved to Mobile (about 4 hours south of Bham) to work in the shipyards. There was such a need for welders there that his company put him up in an extended stay hotel until he could find a place and move. And the ink wasn't dry on his certifications yet when they did that. That is a bit of support for froot's assertion that people won't move.

We have made an undergrad degree in sociology or women's studies and the like "equal" in the eyes of many consumers with the degrees that offer a tangible self-supporting career upon completion. They are not equal - at leadt from a pragmatic/ROI basis. When I say "we" I mean the colleges.

Or whatever, get the damned BFA but use it to apply to some practical professional grad school unless you're a trust fund child who never has to worry about money.

[iam416]

Perhaps, Froot. Perhaps the reward was so great and guaranteed that the risk was worth taking. Now the question may be at the other end -- is your existence so miserable that you have to take the risk?

That said, when no one is going to help you but you, then your hand is forced. For better or worse.

[iam416]

We have made an undergrad degree in sociology or women's studies and the like "equal" in the eyes of many consumers with the degrees that offer a tangible self-supporting career upon completion. They are not equal - at leadt from a pragmatic/ROI basis. When I say "we" I mean the colleges.

Or whatever, get the damned BFA but use it to apply to some practical professional grad school unless you're a trust fund child who never has to worry about money.

Correct. Another thing worth mentioning in the "cost of college" debate is that the crushing student debt isn't coming from state colleges (for in-state students). In-state tuition at Ohio State is $11K. Most other Ohio public schools are marginally lower. If you live in Cleveland you can attend CSU for $10K, live at home and graduate with $40K in student debt. There are plenty of affordable options.

The crushing student debt is, obviously, when you attend private schools or, for some crazy reason, go out-of-state to a state school. I have no clue why the American taxpayer should forgive the $150K debt of a Cleveland kid who decided to attend some small private school or an out-of-state school -- say, West Virginia.

In order to stop these types of inefficient decisions, once we decide to pay for college, I'd vigorously support a provision that says the cash can only be used in-state. You don't get some sort of lump sum in-state tuition grant and get to use it to offset the costs of Georgetown.

So, if it's worth it to you to pay private tuition for an English degree, then knock yourself out. But expect no help.

[froot loops]

My son is going to college next month in the Computer Science program, if he completes the degree he is pretty likely to start off with a job paying 70k, they sell you on having to do internships in the summer that pay between 20-35 bucks an hour. The key is getting through the program, you don't want to start spend 30k a year and not finish. My stress level is high, at least nowadays you can check on the progress online.