Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Whitley]

Just a few thoughts on immigration here:

1) The idea that I see Republicans putting forward that Dems don't want borders because of their problems with how ICE is being used is silly. Last I checked, the US had borders long before ICE was established (2003 for those keeping record). What I wonder is why does ICE have to be its own deal? You have INS and Border Patrol and seems that you could streamline this by melding ICE underneath both INS and Border Patrol.

2) Those were brought here as children, I do not see the sense of punishing the sons and daughters for what the parents did. The Dreamers should have the same opportunities (such as they are now) that everyone else has.

3) Make no mistake, the Trump administration is not going to be satisfied with just illegals. They already (and vastly under reported) have a task force that is looking at naturalized citizens to see if there any lies on their applications. Task forces usually find something to justify what they are doing. If they find any lies on their applications, then they could lose their citizenship. Given the stance the current administration has on immigration one can imagine what kind of people (ie those not like us) they would be shipping out.

4) There is no way Trump wants to sign any kind of immigration bill. It is too good a dog whistle to drum up fear and support for him.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Thanks for your thoughts Whitley. The role and place of ICE within the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is woefully misunderstood by many who are spouting off about US Immigration law and enforcement. In short ,U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is a LARGE law enforcement agency of the Federal Government under the jurisdiction of the DHS and has been since establishment of DHS after 9//. Here's a link to a concise, if not perfectly correct, but clse enough for my purpose, explanation of it's place and tasks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement

Frankly, I don't firing bullets at ICE has any place in the immigration debate other than to appeal to emotions rather than reason. They follow established laws. If ICE critics want changes to a process by which they enforce the laws, change the laws. Is Congress blasting local police on the regular? Not really.

Updating the laws regarding existing processing of all categories of immigrants and having responsible debate in moving an immigration bill that has to deal with DACA and Dreamers, has to happen if new legislation is going to correct existing problems for all categories of immigrants and especially those immigrants who may be currently legal under the DACA and DREAMER provisions of the immigration law. My view is that these were not at all well thought out and were a set of feel good provisions that probably got the D's some support in enacting them.

Instead we get this polarizing debate before the public eye, that is filled with hyperbole and outright lies. I'm not optimistic that is going to change in the near term but I certainly believe it should. The best way to do that is to stay informed and call your representatives on it when they miss-speak. Write letters.

I think the president can have guard-rails installed around him preventing him from having enforced any executive orders that would do what you allude to. If he did such a thing, the ACLU and others would certainly challenge them in ways that they and others have been successful in curbing.

I do agree with your observation that Trump will continue to lie about a "Crisis at the Boarder" even though it is objectively demonstrable that there isn't one. During his campaign and his presidency he has done a really good job reaching out to his base on hot button immigration (and Trade) issues, framed in ways that are mostly wrong, to drum up support/poll numbers for his immigration (and trade) policies. In turn his Democratic opponents knee-jerk react to his assertions with wrong headed pronouncements of their own. In that process D (and Moderate Rs who are critical of TrumP) are assuming that none of the voters will react to anything fact based but certainly will to emotional appeals that are based non-fact based pronouncement that create the Trump critic's own alternative immigration (and Trade) policy realities that are as false as those of the Trmp Administrations administration. I thkn both sides are knowingly and purposefully going down this unscrupulous pathway.

If there is something that makes me dislike DJT more than his presidential predecessors it his continuous lying to the American public, and in the process, dismissing the facts at hand. This is not to say other presidents haven't done this. They have but Trump's lying is much more egregious.

[Ghengis Jon]

Immigration is a many faceted issue with many plausible reforms and potential solutions, a wall not being one of them. This is the United States of America, not friggin' East Germany. We do not build walls.

[Whitley]

On the Trump task force with naturalized citizens:

A small transcript here:

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/04/625980910/white-house-launches-effort-to-take-citizenship-from-those-who-lied-to-get-it

an op-ed from an expert:

http://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/396923-trump-administration-now-has-naturalized-citizens-in-its-sights

Those were the first things I found a google news search found several more articles. SO maybe it got drowned out in the noise that is the Trump administration, that is certainly possible. BUT also remember SCOTUS just ruled that the President has wide latitude when it comes to national security, so if someone lied on their application (and such a lie could be in the late 80s-early 90s if you were a sexual devitant <ie gay>) they very well could have their citizenship revoked and deported.



Looking at what ICE does seems like a lot of it is duplicated with the other agencies that the US has right now. The ERO seems like it could fit under the INS instead of on their own. The HSI seems like outside of human trafficking, smuggling and human rights violations (and maybe transnational gangs) that much of this is duplicated with other agencies do and could be folded into those agencies. I would think that would make it overall more effective (on the macro level) and streamline the government a touch. Just seems like the ERO and HSI (what is not duplicated) fits more naturally under the INS.

A large part of the problem is while ICE and Border Patrol are tools (and tools just like knowledge are not bad in and of themselves) but the way they are being used (staking out places that are dedicated to minority communities and questioning people leaving those places, grabbing people that have been here for years (true they are illegal) but have businesses, married and woven themselves into positive aspects of the community) leave minorities feeling like they have to watch over their shoulder every day. It also goes very much against what most Americans believe are their core values. As much, I have no problem with them calling into question ICE and bringing into the idea that there needs to be serious immigration reform.

[Ghengis Jon]

Putin seen in Colorado....

https://www.kyma.com/news/odd-news/prankster-hangs-putin-portrait-in-colorados-state-capitol/774408788

[iam416]

This is a rather long read on one man's perspective of Berkely, but I thought it was pretty interesting: https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...ve-up-college/

I'm not drawing too much from that place, as it's batshit crazy...but I did like this passage:

Berkeley may be the one place in America where there is a silent majority of liberals, i.e., people who espouse an Obama-like brand of inclusive technocratic neoliberalism but are afraid to say so because, like the conservative silent majority Richard M. Nixon described five decades ago, they will be branded troglodytic fascists

[iam416]

Less interesting and more needly -- the ever prescient LA Times in 2017 (if Trump thinks he can get 3% growth he's dreaming): http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...19-story.html# Then doubling down a year later: http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...427-story.html

The LA Times on Friday stuck reporting: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...727-story.html

[iam416]

Good grief.Just watched Ocasio-Cortez on Trevor Noah's show -- who, obviously, fetes her. But holy fuck...."How are you going to pay for all this shit?" .....

The New Face of The Democratic Party

[iam416]

More hilarious, of course, in defending here preposterous $15 minimum wage:

"200 million Americans make less than $20,000 a year. That's 40% of this country."

[Jeff Buchanan]

Ocasio-Cortez, a whack-job if there ever was one.

[iam416]

Correct, JB. But she's on the fast track to #GentryProg Stardom. Incidentally, Buchanan, I agree mostly with your immigration takes and such. I mean, at least in principle.

I'd add legitimate asylum seekers a bull-work of American immigration for centuries that I wholeheartedly support.

I think one way to define legitimate asylum seekers is the look at their point of entry. If they're coming from a country where we give asylum, then hell yes. If they're already in a safe country and coming from there, then they can get in line. Mexico is a safe country, well, maybe not "safe"-- but you ain't getting asylum from Mexico.

[AlabamAlum]

A guaranteed "living" wage for every US worker would be devastating to inflation and the economy especially since fast food and retail automation is a real thing now. Just let there be a real incentive for business to drop the low-wage unskilled laborer in favor of Hal-9000 making your Big Mac.


Dave, you don't really want no onions, do you?

Dave, calm down. Take a stress pill.

daisy, daisy, give me your answer do....

[iam416]

You must have missed Ocasio-Cortez explain, without the slightest push back, how your take is full of shit.I trust you'll revise said dipshitted opinion after watching said interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUmI...E&pbjreload=10).

[AlabamAlum]

Yeah, she's a moron. Nothing wrong with being an idealistic moron unless you're given power to enact moronic plans.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I see Mayor Rudy has now moved on to the "There's nothing wrong with colluding with the Russians" line of defense. We all knew it would get there eventually, but this is quicker than I expected.