Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[SeattleLionsFan]

Rich Lowry on illegals who bring along children - https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ids-at-border/

Explains the so-called ??monstrous?? process. Personally, I?d just put them on auto-deport.

No due process? He makes some decent points, like that they could keep families together if they wanted.

[WingsFan]

Poor lil snowflake. Talking bad about Trump made you collapse in a pool of tears. I apologize.

Have you made your donation to the Paul Manafort/Michael Flynn Defense Fund yet? Kapture can get you the number.

lmao politics is not my bag, nothing you can say here will bother me - I actually remember you use to be an ohio state fan

[Dr. Strangelove]

No due process? He makes some decent points, like that they could keep families together if they wanted.

This is a decent point you raise...criminals receive due process, and the Constitution does NOT (no matter what Trumpists believe) only apply to citizens

[Dr. Strangelove]

lmao politics is not my bag, nothing you can say here will bother me - I actually remember you use to be an ohio state fan

No worries, man. I actually like you, even if you have a Don Trump Jr poster taped to the ceiling above your bed.

[AlabamAlum]

None of you are dullards, Jeff. When I challenged AA a few months back on why he thought Jeff Sessions isn't a liar, he gave me an excellent response. But it doesn't take a voting populace of dullards to fail to understand what's going on around them. There are other places where obvious grifters are inserting themselves into public life, and where voters are struggling to recognize what's happening. In Ontario Doug Ford just won the vote. Brexit passed even though it was laughably easy to do the math. People in advanced countries think there's a big structural difference between their systems and those of banana republics, and that's where the skepticism falls short. The same cognitive dissonance leads to the ``we never thought it would happen here in our neighborhood'' line you hear from the neighbor after the guy next door offs his wife and kids.

The question for countries at risk is whether voters take this seriously or not. Cambridge Analytica faces more serious legal trouble in the UK than it does here, for example. The UK is off to a good start; America may or may not be depending on the pardons/impeachment-conviction ratio. Ontarians knew Rob Ford was a petty thief, but still managed to elect his brother to a larger office in a campaign that focused on the crack smoking rather than the corruption. Canada is not off to a good start.


All of which has little to do with what we here say on the politics thread in a sports forum, but things like assuming a serial liar isn't lying -- especially when he says some untrue thing in exactly the way that he often says untrue things -- are an indication of that struggle I'm talking about to understand and contextualize what is happening around us.

Said much more eloquently here:https://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n23/david-...democracy-ends.

I am skeptical and even cynical. It's in my DNA. My IQ is the 98th percentile, I am a scholar, a gentleman, and a Scot and I am never sick at sea; so, the belief that the parents/children gaffe is some intential lie is silly to me. I do a modified Occam's on things of this nature. My view is that this is a harmless mistake. Certainly not an intentional lie. I guess you could argue that it could be a sign of a pathological liar, but really, even in that case, intention is not a slam-dunk. Now, go ahead and read your Bible, Hack, and you go to your church, and, with any luck, you might win the annual raffle, but if you're looking for God, he was iIn the Miscellaneous thread on June 15 and he doesn't like being second guessed.

[Kapture1]

This is a decent point you raise...criminals receive due process, and the Constitution does NOT (no matter what Trumpists believe) only apply to citizens

Manafort is getting due process but is separated from his kids. Why aren't you advocating for them?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Manafort is getting due process but is separated from his kids. Why aren't you advocating for them?

Because I don't regard illegally crossing the border to be an equivalent crime to fraud, corruption, bribery, tax evasion, etc etc etc. is part of it. Most of those I believe are felonies while illegal border crossing (first offense) is a misdemeanor. I'm not sure if multiple offenses rise to the level of felonies or not.

And last I checked, Manafort's kids weren't infants. I guess in Trumpworld it doesn't matter if the children are grown-ass adults or 2 years-old, but it does in mine.

[WingsFan]

Donald Trump told NBC?s ?Meet the Press? in 1999 that he would ?negotiate like crazy? with North Korea if he ever got the chance. Trump?s prediction ended up coming true, as he sat down for the first ever meeting between a United States president and a North Korean leader earlier this week. ?We have a country out there that is sort of wacko ? and they are going out and they are developing nuclear weapons,? he continued. ?Wouldn?t it be good to sit down and really negotiate something??

Yes DSL its been a very good week, try to enjoy the weekend.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Here are a couple of links I recommend to those of you on both sides of the "monstrous" process of taking kids from parents who illegally cross the US boarder.

When I found this site a week or so ago, I was surprised to learn that .....

Prior to 2006, ICE commonly detained parents and children separately. In FY 2006 appropriations language, however, Congress directed ICE to either ?release families,? use ?alternatives to detention such as the Intensive Supervised Appearance Program,? or, if necessary, use ?appropriate? detention space to house families together. ICE responded by opening the T. Don Hutto Residential Center in Texas, with over 500 beds for families. But, as the Women?s Refugee Commission explained, the ?Residential Center? was a ?former criminal facility that still look[ed] and [felt] like a prison.? The Hutto detention center became the subject of a lawsuit, a human rights investigation, multiple national and international media reports, and a national campaign to end family detention. In 2009, ICE ended the use of family detention at Hutto, withdrew plans for three new family detention centers, and said that detention would be used more ?thoughtfully and humanely."

As usual, this is a much more complex issue than the media has reported that it is and has been characterized by an on-going debate about what to "about the children." It should be no surprise that emotions cause rational discussion to quickly deteriorate. It is a more complex issue than Kap wants to make it i.e., their parents broke the law, deserve prosecution and their kids have to be taken from them while the lawbreakers are processed, too bad ..... so sad. There are consequences to unlawful behaviors.

My wife, a very practical thinker, told me she has no problem with enforcing the law as Sessions appears to be doing. Round the immigration lawbreakers up and process them. Her problem is the idea that the children of the law breakers are being placed in less than "thoughtful and humane" facilities. Like, Walmart Super Store warehouses are not a great place to house kids separated from their law breaking parents who are being detained somewhere else. Why is that? See the quote above and read the full article in the second link.

The international treaties the US has signed on to that deal with refugees, adults and children, are complicated. The laws the US implemented to conform with international norms by treaty are equally complicated. It's not like the US isn't trying to do what is right with the children of illegal immigrants. It's a tough problem, the current situation is difficult but it is not an indicator of monstrous behavior by the current administration.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/

.
https://www.americanimmigrationcounc...-and-responses

[SeattleLionsFan]

Bullshit Jeff. It?s monstrous. There are plenty of options that do not involve ripping breastfeeding children from their mothers and putting them in fucking camps.

[Kapture1]

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monstrous

[CGVT]

"In 2014, we saw an enormous spike compared to what usually happens every year, in the number of kids crossing alone into the United States," she said. "And we didn't have enough shelter facilities, because we had a huge increase, so kids ended up piling up in Border Patrol lock-ups, which are no places for children."

"What the Obama administration did, which is what the law requires, is to find shelter facilities for those kids, which were put together by the Department of Health and Human Services. So the goal was to get kids out of the Border Patrol, into proper care by HHS, and then HHS is supposed to release them to the least restrictive setting, and in more than 80% of the cases, that was their parents who were already in the United States."

Monstrous

No comparison, but you would have know that if you had read your own article...

What a fucking clown.

[millenwasmyfavorite]

Ya we can ramble about history and complexity of context forever:

1. ICE is operating with clearly endorsed impunity
2. Unsure of any event in history where mass disruption of family units wasn't detrimental to all parties impacted.
3. DHS facilitating child placement case by case isn't remotely analogous to placing 1,000+ newly parentless kids into a walmart sized domain.

i get it, we can whataboutit forever, but plainly, 1,000+ kids are in a walmart with "cheer up" trump murals, and they no idea what their future holds and if it will contain the most important people in their lives.

[Kapture1]

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speaking of forcibly removed lol


monstrous

[CGVT]

Yawn