Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[crashcourse]

The thing that the Kaep people don't realize is, that while the stand/kneel brouhaha is silly (imo), it has done them and their (misguided) movement more harm that good. It is bad optics for them and Trump has exploited that well.

yep

doesn't matter where when how--just show some respect

I don't care whether its played at over a funeral or at your 1st graders soccer tourney on Saturday afternoon --colin K's was a show of disrespect that created a movement of disrespect. This needed to be addressed by those that disagreed with the way his cause was overhyped. which means shutting off the tv which got their attention

of course I know and everyone knows the amount of respect you pay at a funeral vs a pro football game varies but cognitive disrespect is the issue. as I get older I am much more patriotic then I was a teenager growing up in indy. back then I was working on a buzz prerace at indy now I have to wipe away a tear. it is what it is but I certainly don't support cognitive disrespect and organized protests on a national level--they have every right to do it.

would love to see somebody take a knee when the Alabama crimson fight song was being played just to see the reaction there

[froot loops]

AA:

You, sir, are the type of "man" that prefers Ed Sheeran's Galway Girl cover to Steve Earle's original. God could have conceived of no greater immorality.

Is it better to be that type of "man" or a man who thinks Steve Earle is singing an original?

[iam416]

I was under the impression Steve Earle wrote Galway Girl about, well, a girl Steve Earle knew. Feel free to correct that impression, Froot.

Thought, I should have said Ed Sheeran's "version" not cover -- since it's so wildly and terribly different.

[Ghengis Jon]

Conservative doubles down on Faux News

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/07/media/ralph-peters-fox-news-anderson-cooper/index.html

<preparing for standard 'shoot the messenger ignore the message' response>

[Dr. Strangelove]

Relatively recent and wholly contrived strike me as the least persuasive arguments for the Kaepernistas. The question is what it means now. Gay marriage is incredibly recent and a wholly contrived constitutional right. But it's legitimacy is judged on neither, but on current public views. The national anthem clearly means something to a lot of people, whether played at a sporting event or elsewhere.

To the extent it even matters, we're hardly alone in the practice. If you watch any of the world cup you'll see that the anthems of both countries are played before the match with both teams standing and most singing. Or rugby. To wit, England- Scotland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2l...k&pbjreload=10

And the Scots, of all people, should kneel and moon the cross of St. Andrew as their bagpipe-infested dirge screeches inexorably and interminably on to its merciful end.

Despite the anthem meaning so much to so many, virtually no one stands when they hear it on the radio or tv. If your behavior is conditional upon other people being around to witness said behavior, then I cast doubt on the emotional sincerity. Your mileage may vary greatly, as always.

And to introduce an NRO debate that's been going on for the past 2 years, where does the line get drawn between Patriotism and Nationalism on this issue? I keep saying "patriotic" in relation to this debate but thinking about it, I may switch to nationalistic. The flag and anthem may mean something to people, but they ARE just symbols that purport to represent certain values/principles. One of those principles is free expression. When enforcing "respect" for the flag takes precedence over or is even equal to the principle behind the symbol, you've passed over into nationalism, IMO.

[iam416]

I think the patriotism/nationalism conversation is a good one, DSL. I don't the think the "emotional sincerity" point is particularly strong, so my mileage does vary.

Look, I think the whole notion of employer's firing employees over speech is crazy to me (and I'm probably in the minority on this). I also think ginned up, massive overreaction to isolated incidents is crazy. I certainly don't think CK speaks for the majority of NFL players -- on the other end of the spectrum, I certainly don't think one Philadelphia starbuck's is indicative of corporation wide "hidden" racism. I despise the entire outrage moment that we're living in. HATE. IT. But, it's here to stay.

So, I'm no fan of PDJT's fanning the flames. Patriotism/Nationalism is one area where Rs really are asshats when it comes to tarring the other side. And you know there's plenty of asshattery coming the other way.

Finally, I really am no fan of Kaepernick. At all. I think that's abundantly clear. Heh.

[hack]

I hadn't known about the cover of Galway Girl before being alerted to it here and now, which only reinforces feelings of superiority. Anyways, the Copperhead Row tour was terrible. Lapsteel and multitool guys were invisible. Rushed through Johnny Come Lately at warp speed. Very disappointing.

[Jeff Buchanan]

.........The flag and anthem may mean something to people, but they ARE just symbols that purport to represent certain values/principles. One of those principles is free expression. When enforcing "respect" for the flag takes precedence over or is even equal to the principle behind the symbol, you've passed over into nationalism, IMO.

I think this is an important concept that, listening to the dialogue from Trump and his supporters on this issue, they may comprehend but do not incorporate into their thinking or speaking about it.

Crash used the term "cognitive disrespect" when categorizing those who might not stand for the NA or embrace the goals/ideals of BLM, esp. when it comes to law enforcement. In that context and in general, do Trump supports think it is ok to characterize those who might opine that it's fine if, as a matter of protest, to hang the flag upside down, burn it, not stand for the NA, etc. as unpatriotic? If so, to what level and how would you enforce the principals you stand for?

Clearly, those questions can only be answered correctly in a constitutional frame work as yes, you can do all of those things legally but, as in Kaep's case, public rebuke, totally legal, will demonstrate consequences for such behavior can be harsh.

The problem I have in the current NFL drama are two fold: (1) Americans are receiving messages from the bully pulpit of the WH that suggests protesting is unpatriotic and should not be tolerated by any American. That, as DSL points out, is, to me dangerously nationalistic. (2) Because of the words from PDJT, the right seems to be increasingly emboldened to speak openly about and embrace potentially dangerous nationalistic views, these views containing xenophobic and racist ideals.

There has been some very good articles on the dangers to democracy of this sort of thing that seems to be occurring world wide beyond the boarders of countries that can be fairly characterized as nationalistic and authoritarian. France and Italy come immediately to mind. Germany not far behind. That it's going on in the US, to the extent that it is and seemingly encouraged by PDJT, is a bit disconcerting. OTH, our traditional democratic institutions seem to be making sure not much will come of the upsurge in American nationalistic rhetoric.

[AlabamAlum]

Crash,

If someone kneeled while the Alabama fight song or as the alma mater played, I would take it as a display of reverence (again, KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!).

If rival fans booed, or whatever, I would take it as the compliment that it is. It means we are successful. I will never forget how much our rivals liked Bama under Dubose and Shula and how 180 different that is under Saban. I love it (with a capital L).

[froot loops]

I stand corrected on the Galway Girl, it is a Steve Earle's original, I had heard it from so many irish folk groups, I thought it was a traditional song like Whiskey in the Jar. By the time I heard Steve Earle doing it I thought it was, I heard it on the Deep Roots show by Tom Power. At any rate talent was correct, don't get used to it.

Interestingly, the girl in question was met in Galway but she was from Howth, if you can steal a day away from Dublin to go to Howth, do it. It is beautiful and accessible from the DART.

[iam416]

Well, froot, this is the rare the day where you learned something from this board.

Now, I'd definitely consider it an act of patriotism and love for humanity if someone clubbed Alabam"Alum" to death during the National Anthem, Rammer Jammer Bammer Jammer Rammer, God Save the Queen, Galway Girl, anything by the abhorrent Dave Mathews, any other compositional work claiming to be music or anything that isn't music. The man dips his wings in ketchup and slathers his extra well ribeyes with A1.

[crashcourse]

also drinks Zima and smokes white owls

[iam416]

Well, he only smokes white owls if he's out of Virginia Slims.

[froot loops]

I rather like DMB, but in the same way one likes Rush, the greatest hits package and maybe a couple albums will do.

[iam416]

I like DMB in the same way I like Rush -- with unmitigated contempt.

I believe you and your pal Kapture are DMB Homeboys. So, you know, reinforcements are on the way.