Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Ghengis Jon]

Its only the rabid right wing that puts forth the narrative "attempt to overturn the results a legitimate election". The right can't separate the concept that the Russkies made concerted efforts to interfere with the election process for their own benefit and the concept of "overthrowing the election". Part of the problem is the martyr syndrome the right likes to wallow in.

Attempting to undermine the FBI and DOJ (and other institutions) is an activity America's adversaries engage in. Putin's cock holster is doing a bang up job on this score. I doubt that Mueller will find collusion or obstruction ON CHUMP'S PART, but perhaps he should examine Chump's activities as an unregistered foreign agent. He's doing far more damage than Flynn ever did.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Something for all to consider here. If you fully believe the memo, the FISA warrant in Oct. against Carter Page was almost entirely based on the Dossier. That warrant was renewed at 3 month intervals an additional 3 times. Five separate individuals signed at least one of these applications: Comey, McCabe, Sally Yates, Dana Boente, and Rod Rosenstein. To believe in the conspiracy theory House Republicans and our own house cons here want you to believe, you must believe all of those 5 are in on it, even Trump appointee Rosenstein and registered Republicans Comey & McCabe.

Now consider the renewals. When the FBI goes back to the FISA court and wants a renewal, the court is almost certainly going to ask "Have you been getting good intelligence?" and if so, will ask to see it. It seems inconceivable to me that "no your honor" would get a 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd renewal of the warrant. They were surveilling Page for a full year. So there's two possibilities here

1) The FBI was getting good info by tapping Page's phones, computer, or whatever they were actually doing
2) The FISA court really is nothing but a rubber stamp and if the FBI says "give us this", the FISA judges will almost never say no, regardless if any evidence is provided

If #2 is the case, plenty of Republicans were aware of the system being woefully broken when they voted to reauthorize and expand the FISA program.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Devin Nunes acknowledged on Fox that he hasn't actually read the FISA application. Of the entire Intel Committee, only Trey Gowdy has.

Gowdy has been far more supportive of Mueller than Nunes has. As I showed earlier, he posted just today that nothing in this memo tarnishes the Mueller investigation.

EDIT: Also, Nunes admitted on Fox that Russian Intelligence tried to recruit Carter Page once, but they called him an idiot, therefore it's totally outrageous that he was monitored after that. WHAT???

EDIT x 2: It was four separate judges that signed off on the FISA warrants. So all four of them are incompetent or part of Kapture's conspiracy theory

[Kapture1]

Its only the rabid right wing that puts forth the narrative "attempt to overturn the results a legitimate election". The right can't separate the concept that the Russkies made concerted efforts to interfere with the election process for their own benefit and the concept of "overthrowing the election". Part of the problem is the martyr syndrome the right likes to wallow in.

Attempting to undermine the FBI and DOJ (and other institutions) is an activity America's adversaries engage in. Putin's cock holster is doing a bang up job on this score. I doubt that Mueller will find collusion or obstruction ON CHUMP'S PART, but perhaps he should examine Chump's activities as an unregistered foreign agent. He's doing far more damage than Flynn ever did.

Only one side colluded with the Russkies to skew an election and it wasn't the Republicans or Trump. You're carrying water for traitors to this nation.

[Hannibal]

Attempting to undermine the FBI and DOJ (and other institutions) is an activity America's adversaries engage in.

Abusing instruments of the state to persecute political enemies is the activity that America's adversaries engage in. And this isn't even the first example of the Obama administration doing this.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Abusing instruments of the state to persecute political enemies is the activity that America's adversaries engage in. And this isn't even the first example of the Obama administration doing this.

Registered Republicans Comey and McCabe were so committed to ensuring Hillary's victory that they simultaneously hid the fact that they were investigating the Trump campaign and loudly broadcasted the fact that they were investigating Hillary on multiple occasions.

Such wily 'Deep State' actors

[Dr. Strangelove]

I just want to reiterate for a moment that Carter Page was recruited by Russian intelligence years before Trump even announced he was running for President. Thats not even disputed by Republicans! Devin Nunes admitted it happened! Yes, the Russian eventually said the guy was too much of an idiot, and a federal prosecutor determined that Page never realized he was being recruited. But it's incredible to me that if someone who was recruited as a spy by a hostile power later joined a political campaign, we apparently have multiple people here who think it's outrageous that the FBI would try to monitor him again or that Russian intelligence might try to reconnect with him.

If you guys really think the key to getting Mueller shut down is to warmly embrace Carter Page, uh, have at it.

[AlabamAlum]

Something for all to consider here. If you fully believe the memo, the FISA warrant in Oct. against Carter Page was almost entirely based on the Dossier. That warrant was renewed at 3 month intervals an additional 3 times. Five separate individuals signed at least one of these applications: Comey, McCabe, Sally Yates, Dana Boente, and Rod Rosenstein. To believe in the conspiracy theory House Republicans and our own house cons here want you to believe, you must believe all of those 5 are in on it, even Trump appointee Rosenstein and registered Republicans Comey & McCabe.

And wasn't Page separated from Trump by Oct of 2016?

[Hannibal]

So we know that the guy who was supposedly a spy and the reason that the Obama FBI wiretapped Trump Tower wasn't actually a spy.

And the piss dossier that was used to demonstrate that Donald Trump must be compromised by the Russians was fake and produced by the Hillary campaign. And the FBI leaked details of it to the media to both undermine Trump's campaign and/or provide phony corroboration for their case.

Other than that, the spying by the incumbents on the challenger in a Presidential campaign was totally on the up-and-up.

Registered Republicans Comey and McCabe were so committed to ensuring Hillary's victory that they simultaneously hid the fact that they were investigating the Trump campaign and loudly broadcasted the fact that they were investigating Hillary on multiple occasions

Wait -- you think it was good for Trump that Barack Obama never told the public that his government was spying on him? It was Trump who brought attention to the fact that he had been spied on in the first place. If Hillary had won, this never would have seen the light of day.

Has the degree to which entrenched Republican Party members hate Donald Trump escaped your notice? "Registered Republicans" means jack shit in this situation.

[iam416]

I like off-season Hannibal.

[Kapture1]

For any talking point of "it was for Page, not Trump or the campaign"

"The FBI were not targeting Page incidentally as an outcome of foreign intelligence collection; the FBI was targeting Carter Page directly. AND as such they carried full surveillance authority upon all of this activities, interactions, communications and contacts therein.

Because of this direct approach, any group, organization or entity who came in contact with U.S. Person Carter Page was then open for ancillary review and FBI investigation. Those who engaged in contact with Carter Page became subject to surveillance and searches in the same manner as if Page was an actual foreign agent."

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/02/inside-the-hpsci-memo-a-key-distinction-being-conflated-title-i-vs-title-vii/

[Dr. Strangelove]

And wasn't Page separated from Trump by Oct of 2016?

That is correct. Carter Page was no longer with the Trump campaign in October 2016. And Carter Page had previously been investigated and had a FISA warrant issued against him in 2014. It came out in the trial of a documented Russian spy that Page was being recruited. That all predated Trump's run for President.

Trumpists demand you be outraged that the FBI wanted to monitor this guy. This is 100 times worse than what caused the Revolution, AA. 100 TIMES WORSE.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/seb-gorka-nunes-memo-is-100-times-bigger-than-what-caused-the-american-revolution/

[Dr. Strangelove]

Multiple sources tell Wash Post that the central allegation of the Nunes memo, that the FISA court was left completely in the dark about the Dossier's political origins, is simply untrue

The Wall Street Journal has a similar breaking story.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-dept-told-court-of-sources-political-bias-in-request-to-wiretap-ex-trump-campaign-aide-officials-say/2018/02/02/caecfa86-0852-11e8-8777-2a059f168dd2_story.html?utm_term=.d67f08189c10

[Da Geezer]

Now consider the renewals. When the FBI goes back to the FISA court and wants a renewal, the court is almost certainly going to ask "Have you been getting good intelligence?" and if so, will ask to see it. It seems inconceivable to me that "no your honor" would get a 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd renewal of the warrant. They were surveilling Page for a full year. So there's two possibilities here

I doubt a judge would ask to see the intelligence.

Please recall that only 1 in 10,000 FISA warrant applications is turned down. What is true is that in July Comey requested a warrant and was turned down. In October, he added only the dossier and the Michael Isikoff article that Steele planted and was granted the warrant. BUT FOR the dossier no warrant would have been granted.

Geezer- You believe there was a massive conspiracy within the FBI to destroy Trump and get Hillary elected. Yet all the biggest conspirators have been proven to have had information that the Trump campaign was under investigation and none of that leaked during the campaign. Yet Comey held press conferences repeatedly to declare that Hillary was under investigation.

Bizarre behavior from Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Yates, Boente, and whomeever else...they hated Trump furiously because they're all secret progs, they had damaging info on Trump, and they kept it secret. Chose to damage Hillary, whom they adore, instead. All part of the devious plan I guess.

Comey commented on Hillary, who was not being investigated and did not comment on Trump, who was being investigated. That is SOP in the Bureau.

You haven't answered my question: Why was a President Trump so dangerous that the DOJ and FBI had to work against him and in favor of Hillary?

Hannibal is spot on when he points out that the FBI leaked stuff to the media that they thought would hurt Trump. Comey, in particular, leaked his "notes" of his meeting with Trump to a professor at Columbia Law, and, according to Comey, that triggered the Special Council. The FBI pretended that they were investigating Hillary when they were not doing an investigation. That helped her.

Has it occurred to you that if the FBI had actually investigated Hillary, she would have most certainly been indicted and Joe Biden would now be President? That is the "original sin" in this whole matter.

[Kapture1]

3rd degree of seperation. A FISA on Page meant surveillance on Trump and co. since a volunteer member of the Trump campaign was suspected of being a spy of a foreign government. It disnt matter that he was no longer with the campaign