Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[froot loops]

French definitely nails it, the cons are the good guys and the left is sinister.

[iam416]

Correct.

[Kapture1]

Also, the Ds can keep digging but they ain't getting anywhere closer to "obstruction" or collusion. Suggesting a firing? Did I miss something -- is the investigation not going anymore as of June? Blindingly stupid.

FYI, since we measure obstruction of justice by the law -- or, at least those who believe statutory law ought to be what is written in statutes -- here is the statute: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/t...t-I/chapter-73

correct.

Ben Shapiro, who is no fan of Trump's, laid out that there is no legal case for obstruction based on the US statues.

There are three separate federal laws, as The New York Times points out, that could deal with this situation. None clearly does.

1. 18 USC 1503: This ?omnibus? clause covers ?corruptly or? by any threatening letter or communication influenc[ing], or imped[ing] or endeavor[ing[ to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice.? But the clause also requires a pending judicial proceeding ? and as far as we are all aware, there is none. Furthermore, the Supreme Court is quite exacting on the application of this law ? a prosecutor would need to prove that Trump?s conduct materially impeded the investigation, which even Comey has said didn?t happen.

2. 18 USC 1512(c): This provision of law covers anyone who ?obstructs, influences, or impedes an official proceeding, or attempts to do so.? It is not clear that an FBI investigation is an ?official proceeding,? and proving intent is difficult in any case. And it?s not enough to show intent to violate the subsection ? you have to take a ?substantial step toward the accomplishment of that goal.?

3. 18 USC 1519: This provision covers destroying evidence related to a federal investigation. There are no accusations that Trump destroyed evidence. Unless Trump had tapes and destroyed them, the statue simply doesn?t apply.




There is no collusion, the entire basis of Mueller was to investigate collusion, he's not trying to make a collusion case. He is trying for obstruction, which is why he will want to talk with Trump under oath. Any good lawyer would never let that happen. Not even because Trump is hiding something, take the answer he gave to reporters on the discussing who McCabe voted for. First he said that he didn't remember, then he said he didn't. That would be enough for a perjury charge right there, if that were an answer to Mueller under oath.




This will likely wind up with Mueller making a case for congressional action, but nothing legally.

[froot loops]

French talks about the Overton Window changing on immigration, but he doesn't address the GOP side, no major leader in the GOP can push the immigration policies that GW Bush administration did, that policy has been eliminated. Tom Tancredo and Steve King were once the fringe of the GOP now they are the ideological driver of immigration.

[iam416]

Yeah, kapture, based on what is publicly known today, there is absolutely, positively no obstruction case. Nor, for that matter, is their any sort of "collusion" case.

This has always been about money. That's why DJT was to fantabulously fucking stupid to fire Comey and end up with Mueller. Comey was constrained. He would have found no collusion and that would have been that.

[iam416]

French talks about the Overton Window changing on immigration, but he doesn't address the GOP side, no major leader in the GOP can push the immigration policies that GW Bush administration did, that policy has been eliminated. Tom Tancredo and Steve King were once the fringe of the GOP now they are the ideological driver of immigration.

I don't know what they pushed, but the current DJT plan amnesties all Dreamers PLUS another million or so. They plan ends the ridiculous Chain Migration BUT only prospectively -- meaning the 4 million already on the list can get in -- which, apparently, will take years and years to work through.

In the meantime, actual major state universities consider "melting pot" a microagression -- your peeps, Froot.

[Kapture1]

Yeah, kapture, based on what is publicly known today, there is absolutely, positively no obstruction case. Nor, for that matter, is their any sort of "collusion" case.

This has always been about money. That's why DJT was to fantabulously fucking stupid to fire Comey and end up with Mueller. Comey was constrained. He would have found no collusion and that would have been that.

It was the biggest misstep of his presidency. Perfect storm really with Russia fervor infecting the democrats and being used as an excuse for Hillary's loss, questions being asked to cabinet members in their hearings about Russia influence in the campaign, to a meeting between Sessions and a Russian that had nothing to do with the campaign, to his recusal from all things Russian. Even though Comey needed to be fired, but he should have been fired on 1-21-17.



Some people are still desperately grasping at the Russian straws




but anyone with any bit of common sense has let that go a while back.



If this ends up about financial crimes, I still think this doesn't touch Trump. Perhaps the same can not be said about Jared, but Teflon Don continues on unscathed.

[Ghengis Jon]

It will all be financial crimes (and lying to the feds). Trump is terrified that his finances/taxes/business dealings will come under scrutiny. Given his refusal to release taxes and his refusal to be critical of Russia on anything, makes me think there's something buried in the past, long before the campaign. Cripes, it's just been demonstrated that Russia is actively assisting NoKo with evading sanctions and not a peep. One instance in a long list. Mueller's following the money and that's whats scaring Trump. If Trump was completely innocent of everything, not just collusion and obstruction, he would have volunteered to testify on day one. Get exonerated, make his adversaries look foolish, trundicate the investigation and move on. But no. He's afraid of something coming to light, probably long before he dabbled in politics.

What will Mueller's conclusions be? I will venture a guess. Trump - no collusion and most likely no obstruction. Underlings - financial crimes, lying to feds, failure to register as a foreign agent. No actual collusion despite the attempts. Russia - actively attempted to influence the democratic process. Not to get Trump elected, but to ensure a poisoned political atmosphere so that President Hillary would be a lame duck from day one. She's a closet republican and a real bitch toward Russia. The Ruskies were more intent on emasculating the certain Prez-2-B Hillary than getting Trump elected. The fact that Putin wound up with an unexpected cock holster instead was a bonus. No President would meekly submit to Russia's every whim unless there was something hanging over his head. And Mueller won't find it. Only Trump and his master know the truth.

[Kapture1]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2018/01/26/anheuser-busch-ceo-says-hell-invest-2-billion-in-u-s-plants-after-tax-bill.html

Investing 2,000,000,000. Thanks Trump.

[Da Geezer]

Geezer, would you acknowledge that at least SOME of the hype over this memo and the already-revealed texts is exaggerated? Or are you fully convinced that this is the greatest danger our democracy has ever faced?

I'll happily acknowledge that some of the hype is exaggerated. For example, I turned on the news last night, and Fox was all a-dither about a Page email where she warns Stoczk not to go too hard on Hillary because Hillary might become President and it would be bad to have HC an enemy. That is just common sense as far as I'm concerned.

And you are putting words in my mouth when you say "greatest threat......". What I do believe is that redacting the memo so that it is meaningless with the usual excuse that it compromises "sources and methods" would be wrong because using the US CIA, FBI, and DOJ as political weapons is a greater danger to the country than anything happening outside the country. We know for a fact that Hillary and the DNC paid roughly 12 million for the dossier. We know the dossier was used, perhaps only in part, to justify a FISA warrant. We know Fusion GPS took the fifth, and we know an official in the FBI's wife worked for Fusion.

And remember, the Obama administration, and Obama himself, showed a proclivity toward weaponizing arms of government with the IRS targeting the Tea Party, with Holder simply refusing to give documents from DOJ to Congress, lying about Benghazi etc.

All I've ever said was I favor releasing the memo in its entirety, with all supporting documentation. If the Dems want to produce a counter-memo, fine. Release it too. But I believe most Dems (like Entropy) want to know the answer to these questions.

[Da Geezer]

No fucking way on parents. No. That IS CHAIN MIGRATION. Just say you're entirely for Chain Migration and save the dance.

Over 50% of all immigration to the US is chain migration. That is just a staggering number. As far as DACA goes it means that persons who illegally enter the country will be rewarded for their crime by getting citizenship BECAUSE they illegally brought their children. That is just nuts.

BTW, An FBI form 302 is a field agent report by actual working FBI agents, not the political arm of the FBI in Washington. Those 302s would be the absolute best primary source for the oversight committees, and to say that the FBI withheld them because Congress would somehow not understand them is nothing more than deciding to avoid a congressional subpoena. That has been happening for about five months now. If they would throw the people who decided to substitute their judgment for that of Congress into jail on contempt, this would no longer happen. Start with Lois Lerner.

[THE_WIZARD_]

[froot loops]

I have worked with numerous immigrants that had a spouse or sibling that benefitted from CHAIN MIGRATION, oh the horror.

[THE_WIZARD_]

"...some day love will find you...break these chains that bind you...one night will remind you..."

[The Oracle]

I have worked with numerous immigrants that had a spouse or sibling that benefitted from CHAIN MIGRATION, oh the horror.

Right? FFS.