Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

I have lauded Canada's meritocratic approach to recruiting foreigners many times in this thread, and you are a reader of this thread.

Correct. And they "recruit" (or "accept") heavily from The Phillipines, India and China. Here are there 2014 numbers (in 2015, 2016, Syrians make a big move into the top 5!): http://canadaimmigrants.com/immigran...-country-2014/

Canada seems to have almost zero interest in anyone from Africa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...ata_Canada.PNG

[Dr. Strangelove]

Crash-

Nigeria's a bad example for those wanting to close off pretty much all Africa immigration because they lack 'merit'. Nearly 2/3 of Nigerian immigrants have a college degree and their median income is well above the national average - it's actually above Korean immigrants too.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-

Talent- I'll try to respond better when I have more time. I'm okay with putting great weight on merit-based but don't want us completely. closing the door to low skilled or refugees either.

[froot loops]

Here is an article pointing out that the most educated immigrants is Africans, the place he calls shitholes. 43 percent of African immigrants hold at least a bachelors degree.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-

[Kapture1]

I mean if El Salvador isn't a shithole country, can the refugees that have been here for 17 years go back?

[Kapture1]

Here is an article pointing out that the most educated immigrants is Africans, the place he calls shitholes. 43 percent of African immigrants hold at least a bachelors degree.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...el-in-the-u-s-

not even top 10 of % of overall population

Nations with highest percentage of population aged 25-64 with a 4-year degree, 2010
1 Norway 35%
2 United States 32%
3 Israel 31%
4 Nethelands 30%
5 Iceland 29%
6 United Kingdom 28%
7 South Korea 28%
8 Denmark 27%
9 Australia 27%
10 Canada 26%
Source: The Center for Public Education, "Getting Back to the Top"

[iam416]

Is that true for African immigrants?

As whole, yes.

If one was to actually use nationality as a proxy for who to let in, you're best off going with India, China, Philipines, European countries and, probably, Nigeria. If you were going to proxy it out by continent then Europe, Asia, Africa and way down there...Americas.

We ought not proxy it out, of course. That's crazy. It ought to be individual basis and what each person can contribute (ala, Canada). And DJT is still an idiot, but let's not pretend that there aren't third world countries and that we ain't getting the "best and brightest" from a lot of these places.

[hack]

Cameroon's ahead of Syria in that link. IIRC Canada's refugee intake isn't even particularly high on a per-capita basis. I think the real reason why Canada is so widely praised is what happens once people get there. If there's any country that truly has a shot at getting past tribalism, it's Canada.

[iam416]

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

This isn't the power of Confucius. It’s the magic of high-skilled immigration. When a country selects immigrants for their educational background and technical skills, it doesn’t just get smart people -- it gets families committed to education, hard work and future-oriented life planning. Every society has its own version of what Kristof calls Confucian values. They are universal. And skilled immigration brings the families with those values to the U.S. from every corner of the globe.

That’s one reason why the U.S. should shift its immigration system to be more like Canada’s. Canada famously awards prospective immigrants with “points,” based on education and other skill-based qualifications.

The U.S. obviously attracts lots of high-skilled immigrants too, especially because of its world-beating university system -- though the country doesn't allow enough of them to stay. Still, switching to a Canada-style points system would allow the U.S. to take even bigger gulps from the rivers of talent flowing around the globe.

Yeah, that's the thing about immigrating from Africa -- it costs money. That nice little barrier to entry means African immigrants are way disproportionately wealthy (relative to their own country). The folks with money in, e.g., Nigeria, don't really want their own kids staying in that, ummmm....what's a good word...third world country?

The Americas/Carribbean are the biggest problems for the US. The cost of immigration is low enough that there's not much of a barrier.

[froot loops]

As whole, yes.

If one was to actually use nationality as a proxy for who to let in, you're best off going with India, China, Philipines, European countries and, probably, Nigeria. If you were going to proxy it out by continent then Europe, Asia, Africa and way down there...Americas.

We ought not proxy it out, of course. That's crazy. It ought to be individual basis and what each person can contribute (ala, Canada). And DJT is still an idiot, but let's not pretend that there aren't third world countries and that we ain't getting the "best and brightest" from a lot of these places.

According to the census figures cities in that article the African immigrants have the highest levels of education.

What are the stats of African immigrants on welfqre? I seriously haven't seen anything saying, maybe you are right and I'll change my opinion. From what I've read the biggest problem for Africans is they sometimes get overqualified from jobs.

[iam416]

Cameroon's ahead of Syria in that link

Right -- I purposefully used 2014 because it was a "normal" year -- if go to the bottom of the link I think you can go to 2015 and 2016 and see a Syrian "explosion" (well, up to like 30,000 -- so correct re per capita).

[Kapture1]

actually those African Nations don't crack the top 37 of overall population with a 4 year degree, and # 37 is 2% of overall population lol.

[froot loops]

Yeah, that's the thing about immigrating from Africa -- it costs money. That nice little barrier to entry means African immigrants are way disproportionately wealthy (relative to their own country). The folks with money in, e.g., Nigeria, don't really want their own kids staying in that, ummmm....what's a good word...third world country?

The Americas/Carribbean are the biggest problems for the US. The cost of immigration is low enough that there's not much of a barrier.

Trump is the one lumping African nations in with Haiti. To him it is the same thing, you are arguing something different and that is fine but it isn't what he is arguing.

[hack]

TBH re Nigeria, the income stats are probably inflated by oil money, plenty of which gets laundered into the US. The biggest foreclosure in Manhattan residential real estate in history was this summer, after a Nigerian bagman racked up an $85m bill for jet fuel and could no longer service the mortgage on his penthouse.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Detroit is a bigger shithole than Haiti...just sayin'...

[hack]

let's not pretend that there aren't third world countries and that we ain't getting the "best and brightest" from a lot of these places.

is hard to reconcile with

Yeah, that's the thing about immigrating from Africa -- it costs money. That nice little barrier to entry means African immigrants are way disproportionately wealthy (relative to their own country). The folks with money in, e.g., Nigeria, don't really want their own kids staying in that, ummmm....what's a good word...third world country?


I think it's true that immigrants beyond humanitarian grounds are likely to be those who can either afford it or are extremely resourceful. I think the latter are more desirable. People in what pass for the middle class. The pampered children of global elites isn't what we should aim for. In fact these people are often enough a pretty good explanation for much of the dysfunction at global multilateral organizations like the UN, where many of them end up "working".