Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

Wow, Bill O'Reilly paid off Lis Wiehl a mind-boggling $32 M to go away. Once he got her to keep quiet, Fox renewed his contract at $25M a year. Then in April when more stuff started leaking they decided to can him after all.

$32M is a huge payment to settle a sexual harassment suit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/business/media/bill-oreilly-sexual-harassment.html

[Da Geezer]

In the 1790 Census, only 5% of Americans lived in cities or urban areas. In 1900 it was about 40%. Today it is over 80%.

80% sounds high to me. Got any links to support this?

[The Oracle]

https://www.google.com

[WM Wolverine]

80.7 percent
America has grown even more urban. According to new numbers just released from the U.S. Census Bureau, 80.7 percent of the U.S. population lived in urban areas as of the 2010 Census, a boost from the 79 percent counted in 2000."

[Kapture1]

Well let's talk history. There have been people bitching about how 'progs' (the currently popular slur) have been ruining America and changing its 'fundamental character' since at least the 1950's. For some it goes back to the Civil War. The Jacksonian Era massively changed America as well. So right off the bat, the idea that America had static, fixed values up until maybe the 60's or 80's is wrong, if anyone believes that. Some people here act like Saul Alinsky invented cynical politics and that the Black Panthers invented the concept of racial identity.

Industrialization changed and affected American values. Immigration changed and affected American values. Religious revivalism changed and affected American values. Urbanization changed and affected American values. The discovery of evolution and genetics changed and affected American values. Computers changed and affected American values. Any of these changes is more significant than the proliferation of the phrase "happy holidays".

In the 1790 Census, only 5% of Americans lived in cities or urban areas. In 1900 it was about 40%. Today it is over 80%. People who live in cities or the suburbs tend to have different expectations from government than people who live in rural areas. Jefferson's vision for America, of self-sufficient, educated farmers enjoying their own small fiefdoms, was a dying concept even in 1800.

A lot of people don't like change, good OR bad changes. Those people tend to be conservative and have bounced between political parties over time.

And yet the self sufficent self educated small goverment principles wont die, neither will the notion of men being born with rights, not gifted by government, but installed by natural law. It's the core of our founding and those who wish to alter or destroy that core are by definition enemies of this country. That doesn't just apply to the far left that want to split people apart by race gender and sexual orientation, want top down government control over people's lives, or to abolish private property rights, but also to the white supremacists that think whites are a superior race. by definition, they are not constitutionalists.

[Dr. Strangelove]

80% sounds high to me. Got any links to support this?

I got it from a wikipedia article but the numbers come from the census. There are links to census docs if you want them at the bottom of that page. On the census doc below it's on Pg 12.

https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/cph-2-1.pdf

The fastest growth in urbanization happened during the biggest years for immigration into America, 1880-1920. Since 1970 it's only gone up an additional 7%. Urban includes suburbs if that's what's making you doubt the numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_in_the_United_States

[Dr. Strangelove]

From the same link, just 4 states are majority-rural states:

Maine: 38.7%
Vermont: 38.9%
West Virginia: 48.7%
Mississippi: 49.3%

If you look at the group of states that are above the national average (there are 18 ) only two are reliably Republican (Texas and Arizona).

[SeattleLionsFan]

you are not wrong about probably 30%

You are wrong about me though.


I don't agree with 100% of what Trump says, I don't support everything. I don't support his comments about the firing of players that don't stand for the anthem for example. I wouldn't appreciate it if 0bama commented the private companies employment practices and encouraged a boycott of, say, Chick Fil A. I don't think it is any business of the president to comment on such matters.

I am a conservative, and prior to Halloween last year I was certain I wasn't going to vote for Trump. But then I remembered my outright hatred for the democrats. If we can't unite around a president Trump, for sure one thing that binds half the country together is the hatred of the Progressives that want to fundamentally change what this country is, and which look upon us as the enemy, and hate us far more.

The question is how does that help the country, but I find it odd coming from the side that supported the woman that called half of Americans deplorable, racist, sexist, bigots, homophobes, and islamaphobes. The right didn't start this war, we just decided to start fighting back.

I got news for you. No one cares about you, much less hates you. And progressives do not want to change what the country fundamentally is.

Hillary didn't refer to half the country as deplorables. She referred to the deplorable bigots as deplorable. Because they are. If you aren't one of those things, wonderful. You weren't included. The fact that you think you were may be cause for soul searching.

Last, there is no fucking war. That is a lie drilled into your brain daily by the trash media you read, watch and listen to.

[CGVT]

I got news for you. No one cares about you, much less hates you. And progressives do not want to change what the country fundamentally is.

Hillary didn't refer to half the country as deplorables. She referred to the deplorable bigots as deplorable. Because they are. If you aren't one of those things, wonderful. You weren't included. The fact that you think you were may be cause for soul searching.

Last, there is no fucking war. That is a lie drilled into your brain daily by the trash media you read, watch and listen to.

Game. Set. Match.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I got news for you. No one cares about you, much less hates you. And progressives do not want to change what the country fundamentally is.

Hillary didn't refer to half the country as deplorables. She referred to the deplorable bigots as deplorable. Because they are. If you aren't one of those things, wonderful. You weren't included. The fact that you think you were may be cause for soul searching.

Last, there is no fucking war. That is a lie drilled into your brain daily by the trash media you read, watch and listen to.

This may be one of the most precise characterizations of the political right that I've seen. I describe it as such because of the last two sentences. I don't think there is any question that the current political climate is more polarized than at any time in US history. It has been a gradual sort of thing but none the less a distinct one.

Trump is certainly the most polarizing president in history and we are living the implications. The central concern for me is the belief by the right that somehow the left has, through it's dominant political role in the 20th and 21st centuries, compromised Jeffersonian ideals of limited government, self reliance and rugged individualism.

Kapture seems to me to be a classic example of a voter enamored with Trump's warped brand of conservatism that appears to embrace a potentially destructive form of individualism and self interest contrary to liberal democratic ideals of the power of collective action and outer directed, moral individualism.

If anything historically the left has tempered the negative aspects of self interest that tends to creep into conservative political thought. OTH, the left has also been mostly responsible for the extraordinary growth of government so, that political movement has it's downsides for me as well.

I would be more comfortable with a political climate that fostered less government but with one that legislatively assured equal opportunity and all that term implies. We are not going to get there with Trump as President.

[Dr. Strangelove]

This is a thought-provoking piece from Kevin Williamson (yeah, I know, THAT guy). Someone may have already posted it and I missed it. It's a long piece but it's well worth reading even if you don't agree with all of it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/452910/white-working-class-populism-underclass-anti-elitism-acting-white-incompatible-conservativism

Very difficult to summarize but the essential comparison is that Trump/Bannon style populism is a celebration of the white underclass, not working class. He compares it to the celebration of crime and violence in gangsta rap. Trumpism is essentially the 'white' version of that, he says.

You went to college? Effeminate elite. You treat your wife as an equal? You're an impotent cuck. You think values matter? Winning's the only thing that matters, elitist.

[Da Geezer]

DSL: Interesting data on rural v urban. I just didn't know urbanization was of that degree. Thanks.

[Da Geezer]

Kapture1: You know you are winning an argument when the lefties here start calling you names or making assertions that are provably false. Just remember that equality of outcome is the goal of all the progressives here. They cannot compete in a real market, which explains their name-calling of those who can.

Speaking of which:

Trump is certainly the most polarizing president in history and we are living the implications. The central concern for me is the belief by the right that somehow the left has, through it's dominant political role in the 20th and 21st centuries, compromised Jeffersonian ideals of limited government, self reliance and rugged individualism.

1. Trump is not the most polarizing President, not even close. Lincoln was far more incendiary to those who opposed him. SC left the Union a month after he was elected, and other states left before he was inaugurated. The dispute was over slavery, not mere immigration or socialism. Roughly half of the "wealth" in the slave states was in the form of humans held in bondage. 600,000 casualties followed.

2. Progressives have indeed "compromised Jeffersonian ideals of limited government, self-reliance and rugged individualism". Socialism has at its core the phrase "..from each according to his ability, to each according to his need..." That is the opposite of self-reliance or rugged individualism.

The Progressive state, starting with Woodrow Wilson, has increased the role of government owing to their belief that a "highly trained" bureaucratic class could better make decisions that benefit society as a whole than mere individuals working through a capitalist economic structure. Utterly intentional. Utterly destructive to individualism. Utterly contrary to human nature.

[WM Wolverine]

Good summary of Trump's vocal base, uneducated whites who blame their issues on government, immigrants, and anything but themselves... He still has more support from religious educated whites than he should.

[Jeff Buchanan]

........ He still has more support from religious educated whites than he should.

Decreasing support if the polls are to be believed and of course the indoctrinated MAGA crowd will tell us that the polls aren't reliable until ballot results start piling in.

Regardless, my hope is that educated voters everywhere that once supported DJT are seeing they are getting more bad than good from him.