Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

So, those of you who have posted comments/articles/links demonstrating that the Trump administration is doing a good job in PR, here's another example of a significant lack of foresight regarding the logistics required to support a major relief effort there.

The Jones Act is a law that prohibits foreign flagged ships from shuttling cargo between US ports. The implication for PR is that foreign shipping companies that FEMA may have contracted with can't go from say, the port of Charleston to the port of San Juan. Weird, yes, I know. This law was implemented when there were US flagged cargo ships. There aren't any of these anymore to my knowledge.

This morning Trump waived the law for PR based on the governor's request. They're celebrating this major announcement. How the hell could you not have known about this and the implications it would have on the FEMA relief effort weeks ago.

This morning, the news had a segment on how things are going in the PR. Not well: 1000s of containers have been off-loaded from ships that could make a port call in SJ (and some just did it disregarding the Jones Act) are sitting there. Same thing for cargo planes, military and civilian, that off loaded supplies at the SJ airport.

Roads to most areas needing help are still not passable so, supplies can't be delivered by truck. Why is this? Because the scope of the job to open roads is huge and wasn't anticipated. Like General Honore pointed out a few days ago, the logistics required to clean up and restore services after a catastrophic hurricane hitting PR wasn't planned for in advance and should have been. Moreover, once the scope of the job was known, the administration was slow to order DOD into action to support FEMA.

We should continue to be stunned by the sheer incompetence of government in the face of a major disaster and, no, I'm not really surprised at all. Disappointed and saddened for the people of PR. My advice going forward is stock up your disaster preparedness kits because it's likely that after a major disaster, things aren't going to improve for you unless you are personally involved in and responsible for being prepared. There's plenty of info on the web about how to do that.

[Wild Hoss]

Hugh Hefner has passed.

Recognize, mofos.

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[crashcourse]

if you're a country like puertorico you know you are in the kill zoine during hurricane season and likely will need to stockpile and preposition all the things it needs to prepare itself for major disasters

both florida and texas prepared for there disasters with preplanning and execute from command centers search and rescue then recovery
hell every city in this country have something in place for blizzards tornadoes earthquakes and other unexpected events

the first week or so of most disaster response has to be the responsibilities of the local and state to manage initial response. and that comes from preplanning. sounds like Puerto rico did not have the ability either economically or through piss poor preparation to handle this.

any blame on the feds should be directed later on down the line. that first week or 2 is much more of a how well have you locally prepared for this scenario

[Jeff Buchanan]

Crash, you need to study the FEMA charter. Here's the important part of what it says .....

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is an agency of the United States Department of Homeland Security, initially created by Presidential Reorganization Plan No. 3 of 1978 and implemented by two Executive Orders on April 1, 1979.[1][5] The agency's primary purpose is to coordinate the response to a disaster that has occurred in the United States and that overwhelms the resources of local and state authorities. The governor of the state in which the disaster occurs must declare a state of emergency and formally request from the president that FEMA and the federal government respond to the disaster.

BTW, the Annual FEMA Budget is $13.9 billion ...... that's BILLION

I do agree with you regarding state and local governments need for disaster prep and I do agree with you that the PR appears to not have been particularly well prepared, esp. from a logistics standpoint.

However, if I've got my dates correct, the PR governor asked for a declaration of a state of emergency about 10d ago or 2d before the storm hit. I'm thinking, based on the wind reports for Maria, that someone should have thinking about engineering support and how to get it there. I think as I've already said, Gen Honore spoke of getting DOD involved way earlier than it was ordered to do so. Maybe in retrospect but I think it was pretty clear that FEMA assets, already stretched for FL and TX needed help from the military.

[froot loops]

Yesterday the Trump was unwilling to waive the Jones act, he got criticized and reversed his decision. Criticism works!

[entropy]

So, those of you who have posted comments/articles/links demonstrating that the Trump administration is doing a good job in PR, here's another example of a significant lack of foresight regarding the logistics required to support a major relief effort there.

The Jones Act is a law that prohibits foreign flagged ships from shuttling cargo between US ports. The implication for PR is that foreign shipping companies that FEMA may have contracted with can't go from say, the port of Charleston to the port of San Juan. Weird, yes, I know. This law was implemented when there were US flagged cargo ships. There aren't any of these anymore to my knowledge.

This morning Trump waived the law for PR based on the governor's request. They're celebrating this major announcement. How the hell could you not have known about this and the implications it would have on the FEMA relief effort weeks ago.

This morning, the news had a segment on how things are going in the PR. Not well: 1000s of containers have been off-loaded from ships that could make a port call in SJ (and some just did it disregarding the Jones Act) are sitting there. Same thing for cargo planes, military and civilian, that off loaded supplies at the SJ airport.

Roads to most areas needing help are still not passable so, supplies can't be delivered by truck. Why is this? Because the scope of the job to open roads is huge and wasn't anticipated. Like General Honore pointed out a few days ago, the logistics required to clean up and restore services after a catastrophic hurricane hitting PR wasn't planned for in advance and should have been. Moreover, once the scope of the job was known, the administration was slow to order DOD into action to support FEMA.

We should continue to be stunned by the sheer incompetence of government in the face of a major disaster and, no, I'm not really surprised at all. Disappointed and saddened for the people of PR. My advice going forward is stock up your disaster preparedness kits because it's likely that after a major disaster, things aren't going to improve for you unless you are personally involved in and responsible for being prepared. There's plenty of info on the web about how to do that.

Perhaps we should let the gov't take over medical care....

::::grabs popcorn::::

[whodean]

if you're a country like puertorico you know you are in the kill zoine during hurricane season and likely will need to stockpile and preposition all the things it needs to prepare itself for major disasters

You mean a country like the US..?




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[entropy]

Yesterday the Trump was unwilling to waive the Jones act, he got criticized and reversed his decision. Criticism works!

Constant criticism will get you ignored too.

Trump seems to enjoy the fight and I doubt he changed his mind based upon criticism. I'd suggest he was guessing and later was told the facts/details. That would be my guess.

[CGVT]

My guess he is a fucking idiot.

That's my guess

[froot loops]

He hasn't been ignoring the Puerto Rico criticism. By all accounts they are very sensitive to it, that's good, you can't do anything about the last 10 days but you can direct all the resources right now. Time is of the essence, the good news is not many people have died, the immediate situation is still salvageable.

Also, the Katrina criticism worked.

[entropy]

You could be correct. I still can't shake the thought he was guessing and the it is others who are really responding.

Also.. it seems to me with each disaster FEMA is "learning lessons". We all learn from each experience, but FEMA seems to learn the basics of what they were set up to do. Perhaps their power, reach, structure, etc need to be reviewed. I'm not an expert.. just guessing, but the slow response and lack of urgency really seems evident. I initially thought maybe it was FEMA's ability to mobilize outside it's department, but there also seems to be issues from within

[THE_WIZARD_]

Fire those sons of bitches...

[Wild Hoss]

FEMA had assets and logistics pre-positioned on PR. Maybe not enough, and if it wasn't enough it fair to ask why. The answers might be "Houston" and "Florida", IDK.

I do agree with Jeff that DoD should have been brought in immediately...I said as much in here in fact, the day after the storm passed and reports were that the entire island was powerless. That decision/inaction will need to be reviewed, but my suspicion will be that many people came to that same conclusion and found that getting it done was more difficult than we think.

For one, its a safe bet that many military assets were scattered far away from the storm. Second, IDK how much naval presence there is in the Caribbean...there are almost never any capital ships there.

[froot loops]

A big part of the problem is each situation is dealing with different state and local authorities. This is what Honore talked about in his earlier criticism of the Harvey and Irma responses.

A situation like this should immediately involve the military, I don't think FEMA has the scope or ability to do some of the stuff that needs to be done. Namely, get the port up to full speed, repair the airport and get the roads passable.

Disaster recovery is a really important thing job and responsibility for all parts of government, it happens regularly on a macro level (the federal level) but infrequently on the local level. It is never an issue in campaigns, but it is one thing where a President and the administration is going to have to use.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Don't try to act smart...yer not...