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  • Big night for news on Manafort: he was being wiretapped under a FISA warrant on at least two occasions in 2016 and early 2017. He has also (reportedly) been warned to expect an indictment.

    US investigators wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election, sources tell CNN.


    Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, has aggressively used warrants and subpoenas for the Russia investigation, sending a message in Washington.

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    • Like Vietnam mostly. Not sure how a feel about time jump parts. But, it does a nice job of laying out the underlying machinations. And I liked the point that we viewed it as through Cold War prism instead of as an end of colonialism. Blindingly obvious, but it hadn't occurred to me until then. That said, it's hard to divorce the Cold War from thoughts at that time. Hindsight is easy.

      I also was thinking about Korea, and that seems like an obviously great decision in the name of the Cold War. In fact, hindsight says we should have done more. But, today our actions led to an extremely productive country.

      I guess the difference was that Korea wasn't ousting a colonial power. The south felt invaded. Quite the difference.

      Anyway, good for pondering.
      Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
      Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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      • How about a spoiler alert? I have it DVR'd and I don't want to know who wins before I watch it.
        "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

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        • Yeah the time jump stuff was jarring at first but I imagine he was trying to draw those parallels between mistakes the French made and us repeating them. The episode was titled Deju Vu, after all. Heh. I was really surprised that we were almost entirely funding the French effort by the end of their time there. Insane. Don't think I'd ever heard that before. We went from supplying a couple vehicles and a million bucks to paying for over 80% of their military costs by war's end.

          Good episode tonight. Very much the Diem show.

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          • Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
            On another note, did anyone watch the first episode of Burns' Vietnam last night? Thoughts?
            I've got Episode 2 qued up. Episode 1 was good in providing an excellent historical back drop ...... I knew about HoChiMin then and was even sympathetic to HIM as a unifier but not to the really ugly Communist ass-holes that took over his nationalist movement brutalizing the Vietnamese who had any association with the French, any Catholics and any Vietnamese Nationalists who were not supporting the Stalinist Communists.

            The Domino Theory was BS in its time and over-simplified the incredibly complex political and even tribal issues in the whole of Vietnam/Indochina. I did not know that then; I served with the underlying concept that I was fighting for the freedom of Vietnam from Communism. But I understand those complexities now having visited Vietnam recently and being guided by a Catholic who strongly disliked the North Vietnamese Government and all it stood for. His father was a teenager when his father (my guides Great) was a South Vietnamese Government official (he did not tell me in what role or what happened to him when the North came calling brutalizing again those that had sympathized with the Americans, French or were Catholics). Burn's Vietnam simply refocused me on the complexities and made me think about my service in the fight for a free Vietnam. Naive 23yo.

            It may become clearer to me what lessons are to be learned from the Vietnam conflict with regards to conflicts today that involve Iran, ISIS and NK. The one piece in Episode 1, narrated by a former NVA soldier, who described the violence and warfare essentially a useless waste of humanity directed by politicians far removed from the ugliness of battle was excellent in that sense. His narrative reflects a more educated view that emerged for me within a year of my service in Vietnam and led, like many soldiers who commented in Episode one about it, to not talk about it with friends who might have asked or family. So, yeah, war (all armed conflict in its many flavors) where soldiers cheer onto battle and the innocents suffer. It is brutal, inhumane and to be avoided at all costs. We seem to keep having to re-learn that fundamental lesson.
            Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; September 18, 2017, 08:45 PM.
            Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

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            • Thanks DSL - Im watching the Lions - took a sneak recording to DVR I really like Peter Coyote

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              • I'll add too that Trent Reznor's creepy & tense music definitely contributes to the viewing.

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                • [ame]https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/909876290114789380[/ame]


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.

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                  • Wow hows that? devour themselves!!

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                    • Originally posted by AlabamAlum View Post
                      How about a spoiler alert? I have it DVR'd and I don't want to know who wins before I watch it.
                      Well done; kudos.

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                      • Jane Fonda ?

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                        • Oliver Stone.

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                          • Clarification on the Manafort story. It would appear that he was not wiretapped in relation to the campaign and wasn't wiretapped during his time as campaign manager. The first period was longer from like 2014 to early 2016 and they were looking for evidence he was involved in money laundering or illegal offshore accounts. The second time came after Trump fired him and lasted into 2017. During THAT period Trump was still calling him and MAY have been recorded. Both times the FBI had a FISA warrant.

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                            • So apparently Spicer's been trying to land a TV pundit job. Wiz, you should go train him. You, too, can't speak in full sentences, and don't always use real words. But you know how to make it work. Call his people; get a consulting gig.

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                              • Originally posted by iam416 View Post
                                Well, I mean, Barbara Fields doesn't agree. But, whatever. It's a stupid, manufactured issue.

                                Crash:

                                Please stop with the slippery slope. It's vapid. If it's wrong it's wrong. It may be that the prog idiots will cross the line. Hell, that's a certainty. But that doesn't mean that we can't exercise independent judgment to sort out right and wrong. Removing confederate statues erected in the 1960s. Fair enough. Removing statues of Columbus or Jefferson or Wilson or the Gay Bear...STFU.

                                That's the beauty of being sentient beings -- we're able to sort out right and wrong and make judgments. So, either defend the confederate monuments on their own merits or don't. But don't defend the confederate monuments on the merits of Washington and Jefferson.

                                https://www.bing.com/search?q=jefferson+statue+virginia&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IENTSR

                                https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=to+kill+a+mockingbird+by+harper+lee+banne d&view=detail&mid=850DF11EF1BCB70A8405850DF11EF1BC B70A8405&FORM=VIRE

                                https://today.duke.edu/2017/08/what-about-military-bases-renaming-fort-bragg

                                I'm not defending the confederate monuments

                                I'm saying the mob mentality that started with the war on anything confederate and tidalwaves into the 3 examples above is ludicrous

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