Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[froot loops]

Yeah the winery quickly made the claim that they were not associated with Donald J Trump. Of course they are affiliated with Eric Trump, so I'm not sure it's much of a distinction.

In regards to the marketplace of ideas, it's failing because their ideas are being sanitized. Their southern heritage is not the same as the southern heritage of someone else. But if you don't explicitly report on what these Nazis idea is southern heritage is you end up with a hell of a lot more people being offended than should be when you call it out. For a lot of people southern pride may be dominance in college football not a return Jim Crow. For the klan, it is the latter and that's why these monuments are important.

[iam416]

Why is the marketplace failing? Cities throughout the south are removing confederate statutes. White supremacists are reviled. They lose at every turn.

[Wild Hoss]

So the defense now is that we should remove homages to Washington and Jefferson, with them having been slave owners and all.

Admittedly, of all of Trumps "problems" this one is probably the most difficult to spin. Even so, that's just terrible logic, and worse as a position as it focuses the attention on another reason to tear these monuments down.

But, whatever. I am always glad to watch this administration struggle to keep its head above water for another day.

[froot loops]

Why is the marketplace failing? Cities throughout the south are removing confederate statutes. White supremacists are reviled. They lose at every turn.

That's true, maybe it's impatience clouding my judgment. You are probably viewing the bigger picture correctly

For me it's hard to reconcile the guy giving the press conference got elected as President. It's not like his views were a big surprise.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I'm actually okay with that. These nazis had the right to assemble, but some private citizen had the right to identify people at the rally and publicize that info. If you're doing this in public there can be no expectation of privacy.

Correct.

It would be nice if the police were to enforce the laws though. Both ways.

[Da Geezer]

...If you're not interested in facts-based journalism you have no business accessing public airwaves. It's a no-brainer to reject the merger with Tribune and establish some standards for who is going to get to use the broadcast spectrum.

For now, I think relying on the marketplace to quarantine bad ideas is sort of working as regards the internet. In an ideal world, rejection of extremism by the marketplace of ideas..., is an interesting one. .... Better these ideas fight and die in the market than by government killing them. I think. Thoughts are evolving on this; not certain.

An honest dilemma.

I'd suggest you think of the matter (the state not allowing or not facilitating unpopular thoughts that are offered to the public) in terms of what you would feel like if the Nazis or white supremacists took control of the government, and did to you what you are considering doing to others. The TDS that is everywhere evident comes from a totally unexpected outcome to an election. Why should anyone think that this cannot happen again? In either direction.

The daily attempt to delegitimize Trump comes (partly) from the shock of the election outcome. Progressives had controlled the White House since 1988, and they just assumed they would again win in 2016. Then, a populist comes along and defeats both political parties, first the Rs and then the Ds. So the Swamp is united in trying to overturn the election if at all possible.

I like the American take on free speech. Let folks say what they want as long as it does not cause, or likely would cause, bodily harm to others. Please note too that this flies in the face of the newly prominent prog belief that we all have the right to not be offended. That's a crazy concept that has taken generations of participation trophies to inculcate into the populace.

[froot loops]

well, when you put it that way........

BLM and KKK have the same fundamental belief in racism, pure and simple. Both are violent, both are haters, both posit government as their enemy. The only difference I was trying to point out was that while Trump denounced the white supremacists, Obama invited the BLM haters into the White House.

I honestly don't see how you can denounce hatred by whites and condone hatred by blacks.



This is always the statist solution. Exaggerate what happened ("...cars..."), then eliminate the opposition by force.

All the media attention is exactly what the Nazi white supremacists want. I say ignore them as much as possible and they'll crawl back under a rock for another 50 years.

BLM may have bad tactics and faulty logic, but at heart it grew out of a response to police brutality.

White supremacists want the elimination of Jews and the deportation of blacks. They only view the government as the enemy if that government isn't letting them have their way.

How you can do a Whataboutism case cracks me up but doesn't surprise me.

[crashcourse]

have to agree with talent and others good discussion
carry on

the salon article that is now circulating bringing to light a few more tidbits about the DNC and the whole Russian collusion fantasy



VIPS believes this new evidence fills a ?critical gap? in the DNC case. In a memorandum sent to President Trump, VIPS questions why the FBI, CIA and NSA neglected to perform any forensic analysis of the Guccifer documents, which were central to the narrative of Russian hacking.

VIPS states two things with what they describe as a high degree of certainty: There was no Russian hack on July 5, and the metadata from Guccifer?s June 15 document release was ?synthetically tainted? with ?Russian fingerprints.?

Further casting doubt on the official narrative is the fact the the DNC?s computer servers were never examined by the FBI. Instead, the agency relied on a report compiled by Crowdstrike, a cybersecurity firm compromised by serious conflicts of interest ? the major one being that the firm was paid by the DNC itself to conduct its work. Another is that the firm?s owner is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, a think tank known for its hostility toward Russia.

If these new findings are accurate, those who pushed the Russia hacking narrative with little evidence have a lot to answer for.

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-if ... er-ignore/

[Da Geezer]

White supremacists want the elimination of Jews and the deportation of blacks. They only view the government as the enemy if that government isn't letting them have their way.

I guess I'll have to take your word on what white supremacists want.

Why do you figure the w-s hate the Jews so much? Someone posted the trailer to a documentary showing them chanting about Jews. I've just never seen Jewish folks as anything than red-white+blue Americans, and we have over 250 years of evidence on that matter. Jewish folks like Jared K are basically white Aryans. Where does this hatred come from, at least in the US? A symbol of banking power? Urban power? I understand the usury argument, but this level of hatred?

[crashcourse]

The VIPS report also notes that the timing of events is strangely favorable to Hillary Clinton. It is hard to disagree.
On June 12, 2016, Julian Assange announced that he would publish documents related to Clinton’s campaign on WikiLeaks. Two days later, Crowdstrike, the firm paid by the DNC, suddenly announced the discovery of malware on DNC servers and claimed it had evidence that the Russians were responsible for it. This set in motion the narrative for Russian hacking.
A day after that, Guccifer appeared, took responsibility for the purported June 14 hack and announced that he was a WikiLeaks source, working on behalf of Russia. He then posted the documents which VIPS now claims were altered to make them appear more “Russian.”
On July 5, two weeks later, Guccifer claimed responsibility for another hack — which the VIPS report categorically states can only have been a leak, based on the speed of data transfer.
As Lawrence suggests, this timing was convenient for the Clinton campaign, which could avoid dealing with the contents of the leaks by instead focusing on the sensational story of Russian hacking.
Since we’ve covered what is in the VIPS report, it is equally important to note what this report does not do. It does not claim to know who the leaker was or what his or her motives were. Lawrence is also careful to note that these findings do not prove or disprove any other theories implicating Russia in the 2016 election (such as possible Russian connections to Donald Trump’s family and associates, etc.). This deals purely with the facts surrounding the DNC hack/leak last summer.

[crashcourse]

There is no evidence for any of these theories — and neither VIPS nor Lawrence in his article attempt to link Rich’s murder to the hack/leak of information from the DNC. (Washington police have said since the night of Rich’s death that he was the victim of an armed robbery attempt that went wrong.) Nonetheless, the emergence of this information may lend credence to those theories for those who want to believe them.
Instead of subjecting the various accounts of what happened last summer to rigorous scrutiny, the media instantly accepted the narrative promoted by the Clinton campaign and U.S. intelligence agencies. It has continued to do so ever since. Now, as new information comes to light, the media has largely acted as if it did not exist.
For the media and mainstream liberals to dismiss the information presented in Lawrence’s article as lacking in evidence would be breathtakingly ironic, given how little evidence they required to build a narrative to suit themselves and absolve Clinton of any responsibility for losing the election.
The authors of this report are highly experienced and well-regarded professionals. That they can be dismissed out of hand or ignored entirely is a sad commentary on the state of the media, which purports to be concerned by the plague of “fake news.”

[hack]

It would be nice if the police were to enforce the laws though.

I think that speaks to the risks of taking some thing s seriously and others not so much. Rights and constitutional articles aren't ranked by how much we really mean it. If it's in there, it's in there, and if it's not its not. We do a great job with free speech absolutism, but All Men are created equal doesn't really mean to many of us, even though that battle has been fought. In truth that needs to be changed to people if we're to take these founding documents as a whole seriously as we do the bits we cherry-pick and single out for a true and full embrace.

Or, find a way to craft a constitution in which we all agree to read between the lines in precisely the same way and accept that some things we really mean and others are things to which we just give a bit of lip service. That's a tough task.

[hack]

I've just never seen Jewish folks as anything than red-white+blue Americans, and we have over 250 years of evidence on that matter.

You may say that today, but based on your body of work here I don't believe that for a second.

[Wild Hoss]

Despite bragging yesterday that many candidates were lined up to replace those business leaders who resigned from the Manufacturing Council and Stragtegy and Policy Forum, Trump ended both today.

#winning

[Dr. Strangelove]

Despite bragging yesterday that many candidates were lined up to replace those business leaders who resigned from the Manufacturing Council and Stragtegy and Policy Forum, Trump ended both today.

#winning

Stole my thunder. Trumps disbands business councils

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16/trump-ceo-strategy-council-is-said-to-be-disbanding-after-exodus