Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Wild Hoss]

The Progs have an economic message that can win, IMO. If the Progs were merely economic messages they'd be more than ok. They're not. They have numerous positions (on lots of things other than 'social justice') that aren't particularly middle America/suburban mainstream.

That's my uneducated guess of an opinion.

Definitely uneducated...because I agree! ("Hellfire!" talent says)

People pretend to vote on policies, but by and large they vote for people they like...or against, or don't show up for, people they dislike. They base those decisions largely on personal values, which stem from a pols' stance on social issues. Hence social issues drive the bus.

This is why so many voters in the midwest and south who should at least consider voting D based on econ policies will absolutely not do it. We can apply this to minorities and Rs as well, in different respects. Its a paradigm that is pretty well set for the time being IMO. (I think you and I had this discussion back in mid-Nov, truth be told)

EDIT: Cleaned up text because I really need glasses.

[froot loops]

My dad pulled himself by the bootstraps and commuted to Purdue University got OK grades and moved out of Podunk Indiana to become a coastal elite on the West coast of the Detroit River. Thankfully he did.

[Wild Hoss]

My dad pulled himself by the bootstraps and commuted to Purdue University got OK grades and moved out of Podunk Indiana to become a coastal elite on the West coast of the Detroit River. Thankfully he did.

Good for him, and you. That said, you and DSL need to hear what crash is saying in terms of voting behavior. None of what you say in response is inaccurate IMO, but the demographic he refers to sees one issue above all others; other people getting their hard-earned money.

So long as they see the Democratic Party tied to Those People, the Ds are not going to get their vote. Ever.

So the Ds have a large-scale decision to make. Do they want Joe the Plumber, member of Local 514, back in the fold? Or do they want the sheer numbers offered by minority voters? I don't think they can have both.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Joe the Plumber's tax burden won't be meaningfully decreased by Trump's tax plan. Heck, Mrs SLF and I are both law firm lawyers without kids and our taxes wouldn't be meaningfully decreased.

Joe, like crash, is stirred up by the tribal invective offered up by the Fox News, breitbart and rush limbaugha of the world. It's not rational and cannot be countered with facts.

[Wild Hoss]

Joe the Plumber's tax burden won't be meaningfully decreased by Trump's tax plan. Heck, Mrs SLF and I are both law firm lawyers without kids and our taxes wouldn't be meaningfully decreased.

Joe, like crash, is stirred up by the tribal invective offered up by the Fox News, breitbart and rush limbaugha of the world. It's not rational and cannot be countered with facts.

Like I said...it is what it is.

The question for the Ds is what, if anything, to do about it.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I wish I had an answer Hoss. But I have no idea how to reach people who won't listen to facts.

Crash, how did they get you to refuse to consider facts when you think about politics? And is there any way to make you act like a rational person again? (This is in jest in case that wasn't clear!)

[froot loops]

My older daughter has a basketball coach that is a huge Trump supporter. Every once in awhile he lectures his team on how great Trump is. Sunday was one of those days, he had all of the greatest hits:

Obama was the true racist
The ICE raids in Dearborn were great
Global warming is a myth


On top of that he is a low talker, his emails and texts are riddled with spelling and grammatical errors and he is awful game tactician. It is torture having to take her to these games

[SeattleLionsFan]

Hmm.....nothing about marginal tax rates or pass through taxation?

[THE_WIZARD_]

[iam416]

Yeah, it's a dark fucking day when you agree with everything Hoss is saying. Lobotomy time.

[froot loops]

Hmm.....nothing about marginal tax rates or pass through taxation?

Nothing that deep, but he did tell my daughter that Obama killed the economy.

[Wild Hoss]

Yeah, it's a dark fucking day when you agree with everything Hoss is saying. Lobotomy time.

Accept me into your heart and be saved, heathen of the Small t.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Nothing that deep, but he did tell my daughter that Obama killed the economy.

But Geezer said..... ;).

[Dr. Strangelove]

Good for him, and you. That said, you and DSL need to hear what crash is saying in terms of voting behavior. None of what you say in response is inaccurate IMO, but the demographic he refers to sees one issue above all others; other people getting their hard-earned money.

So long as they see the Democratic Party tied to Those People, the Ds are not going to get their vote. Ever.

So the Ds have a large-scale decision to make. Do they want Joe the Plumber, member of Local 514, back in the fold? Or do they want the sheer numbers offered by minority voters? I don't think they can have both.

I don't accept that it's a binary choice as I'd rather educate folks on how various programs help everyone.

But for the hardcases, who insist not one penny be spent on things they see no personal benefit from...or that inner cities, illegals, gays, etc. should be cut off so that tax money can go to "Real America" instead...how much do you betray other people just to appease the resentments of this group? Do you point out to them that they're selfishly looking for a handout like all the groups they criticize?

A lot of people who think this way are going to be forced off Medicaid or be unable to afford their insurance soon. Will they feel betrayed by Trump?

I don't have a good answer here. I'm just tired of hearing people bitch and moan about how Middle America (whatever that even is) gets perpetually screwed by the coasts, when the reverse is closer to the truth.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#red-vs-blue

To bounce back on the issue of mobility...I get that many people in small town America are too poor to relocate. I get that. But there's plenty of others who refuse to leave simply on the basis that they don't like cities, (maybe) don't like minorities, or maybe just don't like other people in general. Plenty of folks in crash's "Real America" fall into one of these categories. I have far less sympathy for the folks that have the wherewithal to leave but don't because of one of those reasons.

Sure, it's sad to see a family farm of 160 acres being sold because it's no longer a sustainable way of life. History is full of former professions that got devastated by technological developments. Absolutely you should be assisted in moving by a government that enacted policies that hurt your living. But if you refuse to go because of a dislike for cities...well...

[hack]

I don't have a good answer here. I'm just tired of hearing people bitch and moan about how Middle America (whatever that even is) gets perpetually screwed by the coasts, when the reverse is closer to the truth.


Fire up the coasts. Apply Trump's strategy to the cities. We now know you can tell people what to be angry about, and you don't have to make shit up like Trump did.

Of course that answer is facile and the solution is complex. But, in general, it's time for that. Come up with a positive slogan and then go negative, Negative, NEGATIVE. Point and the villans and point at yourself as the slayer.