Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Whitley]

He did a lot of things, but I don't believe this is true. I could be wrong, but the Supreme Court case that actually ruled for the Cherokee involved the State of Georgia.

Sorry I worded my response poorly. I remember Jackson saying after SCOTUS ruled in favor of the Cherokee, "let them enforce it then."

[iam416]

I remember Jackson saying after SCOTUS ruled in favor of the Cherokee, "let them enforce it then."

Yeah, I've heard that, too, but I don't think it's actually true. Cherokee removal was a lot of things, but I don't think it was open defiance of the Supreme Court.

[hack]

I really don't believe the growing sense of confidence that Russia ends this administration and takes down a ton of very powerful people along the way. This morning's example of that outlook:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&lt;THREAD&gt;<br><br>When Trump-Russia is revealed in its full putrescence of treason, consider the number of people who will be ruined or tainted:</p>&mdash; Eric Garland (@ericgarland) <a href="https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/859752994736394240">May 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm willing to believe in the idea that treasonous acts were willfully and repeatedly committed -- that's not at all a stretch. I don't think that the FBI is going to take down number of people with that amount of power.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Agree Hack. There is a lot of smoke, but I don't know how much fire there is.

[Da Geezer]

I'm willing to believe in the idea that treasonous acts were willfully and repeatedly committed -- that's not at all a stretch. I don't think that the FBI is going to take down number of people with that amount of power.

I agree too. But she and her minions are walking free and repeatedly blaming Jim Comey and Wikileaks for her loss. FBI would look bad taking them down now.

[Whitley]

Yeah, I've heard that, too, but I don't think it's actually true. Cherokee removal was a lot of things, but I don't think it was open defiance of the Supreme Court.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2959.html

snip:

The Cherokee went to the Supreme Court again in 1831. This time they based their appeal on an 1830 Georgia law which prohibited whites from living on Indian territory after March 31, 1831, without a license from the state. The state legislature had written this law to justify removing white missionaries who were helping the Indians resist removal. The court this time decided in favor of the Cherokee. It stated that the Cherokee had the right to self-government, and declared Georgia's extension of state law over them to be unconstitutional. The state of Georgia refused to abide by the Court decision, however, and President Jackson refused to enforce the law.

and from here: http://www.powersource.com/cocinc/history/quotes.htm

"John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."

President Andrew Jackson re: Worcester v. Georgia

[iam416]

I don't know what on earth PBS is saying. I realize it's fashionable these days to hate on Jackson because he kicked the shit out of the injuns, but that's just not true.

I'll rely on Remini, who is by most accounts the foremost Jackson historian.

In his biography on Jackson, which I've read and have on my shelf, at page 216:

"It was later reported by Horace Greeley that Jackson's response to the Marshall decision was total defiance. ' Well: John Marshall has made his decision: now let him enforce it!' Greeley cited George N. Briggs, a representative from Massachusetts, as his source for the statement. The quotation certainly sounds like Jackson and many historians have chosen to believe the he said it. The fact is that Jackson did not say it becaus there was no reason for him to do so. There was nothing for him to enforce...."

The reason there was nothing to enforce is because Georgia eventually overturned the conviction of the white missionaries (Worcester) convicted under the the unconstitutional law. And then they didn't enforce it thereafter. Jackson had nothing to do. Further, he wouldn't have been compelled to do anything until the Supreme Court issued found Georgia in contempt. They never had to do that.

So, the quote is of dubious source. And Jackson never defied the Supreme Court. Period.

The quote, I suppose, is up for debate. Greeley reported it even if it's likely made up. The latter point, however, isn't at all up for debate. Period.

[Whitley]

Now, as I understand the ruling in the case. It meant that only federal law/treaty could apply to the Cherokee nation (and this is still the case) and its lands correct?

[SeattleLionsFan]

Interesting talent. Something new every day. It's like Abe Lincoln said "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy."

[THE_WIZARD_]

He didn’t say that...he died right before Algore invented AOL and global warming...

[Da Geezer]

Remini:

"It was later reported by Horace Greeley that Jackson's response to the Marshall decision was total defiance. ' Well: John Marshall has made his decision: now let him enforce it!' Greeley cited George N. Briggs, a representative from Massachusetts, as his source for the statement. The quotation certainly sounds like Jackson and many historians have chosen to believe that he said it. The fact is that Jackson did not say it because there was no reason for him to do so. There was nothing for him to enforce...."

Yup. Mainstream media screwed this up too. Truth be told, I learned something today.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I don't know what on earth PBS is saying. I realize it's fashionable these days to hate on Jackson because he kicked the shit out of the injuns, but that's just not true.

I'll rely on Remini, who is by most accounts the foremost Jackson historian.

In his biography on Jackson, which I've read and have on my shelf, at page 216:


The reason there was nothing to enforce is because Georgia eventually overturned the conviction of the white missionaries (Worcester) convicted under the the unconstitutional law. And then they didn't enforce it thereafter. Jackson had nothing to do. Further, he wouldn't have been compelled to do anything until the Supreme Court issued found Georgia in contempt. They never had to do that.

So, the quote is of dubious source. And Jackson never defied the Supreme Court. Period.

The quote, I suppose, is up for debate. Greeley reported it even if it's likely made up. The latter point, however, isn't at all up for debate. Period.

It's been 'fashionable' to consider the Trail of Tears a black mark on Jackson's presidency since before you born...

[iam416]

Heh.

[froot loops]

His pyrrhic victory in the Bank War deserves ample criticism.

[iam416]

Correct. That's way more significant than Cherokee removal. I side with Clay.