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  • one of the biggest reasons people like me voted for trump is because of socialism

    when you have less then 50 % working supporting over 50% of the rest of the country you're talking socialism

    one could argue 8 years of Obama care and entitlements skyrocketing have made us one of the most socialistic countries in the world without Bernies input at all

    Comment


    • Drain the Swamp!

      [ame]https://twitter.com/svdate/status/856570570447745024[/ame]

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      • Talent:
        I've been clear in this discussion - Sanders is not technically a socialist. He may call himself one and he may be one as understood in American political terms. But I've only said he's way left on the continuum ... way closer to socialist than traditional D.
        Fair enough. I believe Bernie is a statist. (Except when it pertains to his own taxes or his own housing).

        Comment


        • Originally posted by crashcourse View Post
          one of the biggest reasons people like me voted for trump is because of socialism

          when you have less then 50 % working supporting over 50% of the rest of the country you're talking socialism

          one could argue 8 years of Obama care and entitlements skyrocketing have made us one of the most socialistic countries in the world without Bernies input at all
          On the other side of the coin, one of the biggest reasons Bernie Sanders is popular is his view of what his opponents call entitlements, hand-outs, welfare, etc. To his supporters, they are necessary programs for the social good.

          Sanders has also pointed out that Scandinavian countries do a better job of paying for what amounts to significantly better programs for the public good than America does. Generally, unlike the Nordic Model, US Federal and State government's taxes are insufficient to pay for, by European standards on a per capita basis, what here are relatively meager programs for the public good.

          The US has deployed a tax system that, at face, is not a bad way to redistribute income that is then used to fund the various safety-net programs. Whether you support that approach or not, and I know there are two well informed opposing camps here, we need to get beyond superficial understanding. I'm no expert on the economics of taxation but, when I've got the time, I'll try to understand it.

          The problem in the US's current approach at the federal level is while the tax system is progressive on the taxation end, it is not progressive on the spending end. Here's some interesting data from The Independent Tax Foundation:
          • The question of who benefits from government spending is just as important as the question of who pays taxes. In other words, how do tax and spending policies redistribute income?
          • American’s lowest-income families receive $5.28 worth of government spending (federal, state, and local) for every $1 they pay in total taxes.
          • Middle-income families receive $1.48 in total spending per tax dollar, while America’s highest-income families receive $0.25 cents in spending for every dollar of taxes paid.
          • As a group, the bottom 60 percent of American families receive more back in total government spending than they pay in total taxes.
          • Government tax and spending policies combine to redistribute more than $2 trillion from the top 40 percent of families to the bottom 60 percent.
          • The total amount of redistribution has increased slightly over the past 12 years.
          • Middle-income and working lower-income families were the biggest beneficiaries.
          • Lawmakers can remove equity as an issue in tax reform by matching any loss in progressivity on the tax side with an equal increase in progressivity on the spending side.


          The entire report is here. If people are going to discuss entitlements and income redistribution and the politics that surround this heated topic, one has to understand this subject beyond sloganism:

          How do tax and spending policies redistribute income? Explore our 2013 tax and spending policy analysis. Learn more.


          I bolded the last key finding from the linked report because the concept is relatively new to taxation economics. It is explained here:

          George Washington law professor and economist Neil Buchanan argues that to effectively combat economic inequality, the government must employ both progressive taxation and progressive spending.
          Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; April 24, 2017, 05:15 PM.
          Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

          Comment


          • It would also be enlightening to investigate how much of what's popularly considered social/welfare spending goes to middle and upper-middle class households for expenditures such as geriatric and disability care.

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            • Originally posted by Wild Hoss View Post
              It would also be enlightening to investigate how much of what's popularly considered social/welfare spending goes to middle and upper-middle class households for expenditures such as geriatric and disability care.
              From the the trenches, my guess would be a lot more goes to upper and middle class families than goes to the poor. Why? Because this particular part of the system is difficult to navigate for patients. Poor, less well educated folks have no clue how to get diabetic shoes or get their bathrooms equipped to prevent falls for instance.

              The info is out there but it too is hard to access unless you know exactly what you are looking for. One of your best resources are local Home Health Agencies although they are variably good or bad in doing what they do. There usually a care coordinator who is an RN. These people can help guide families through the process of getting what Medicare or Commercial Insurance will pay for. Another often good source of help is Community Senior Centers.
              Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by crashcourse View Post
                one of the biggest reasons people like me voted for trump is because of socialism

                when you have less then 50 % working supporting over 50% of the rest of the country you're talking socialism

                one could argue 8 years of Obama care and entitlements skyrocketing have made us one of the most socialistic countries in the world without Bernies input at all

                https://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...n-entitlements
                What's remarkable about this is that Trump campaigned on promising he wouldn't touch any entitlements

                The most recent WSJ poll had a question they've been asking for 22 years: Should the government do more to help meet the needs of the people or let free market principles reign

                In the 22-year history of asking this, we're now at a record high of people wanting more govt. intervention. Even a lot of Trump voters want "socialism"

                A record number of Americans now say that the government should do more — not less — in order to solve the nation’s problems.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post
                  ....... and I have a sense that you might have ended and nonetheless not remotely achievable or supportable.

                  BTW, great NYT piece. I thought the closing remark, "We should thank the student protesters (Snowflakes), the activists in Black Lives Matter and other "overly sensitive" souls for keeping watch over the soul of our Republic.

                  Powerful thought.
                  It take a shifting in priorities to be sure. The first place to look would be in the defense budget which is more than the next 26 countries COMBINED with 25 of them being allies.
                  2012 Detroit Lions Draft: 1) Cordy Glenn G , 2) Brandon Taylor S, 3) Sean Spence olb, 4) Joe Adams WR/KR, 5) Matt McCants OT, 7a) B.J. Coleman QB 7b) Kewshan Martin WR

                  Comment


                  • Defense is an area where Trump's whacky approach might actually do some good.

                    The procurement system is irreparably broken, producing very limited options of fragile, over-engineered systems that are almost too expensive to use. We need to get back to having multiple firms able to bid on contracts, and revamp our approach in some areas to a cheaper, higher-volume philosophy. We can out-engineer the Chinese and shit-ass Russians at 2/3 current cost, and sure as hell out-train them. I wonder what role drones and other automation could play here.

                    Another thought, albeit aged, that was cribbed from my brothers' discussions with his remaining SF mates a few years back, is that American soldiers are due for a weapons upgrade. Some of his former dudes thought that a better rifle round and a direct-fire weapon to compete with the RPG would lessen the dependency on indirect fire support and air cover. I wonder if drones could come into play here as well.

                    Any/all of this is going to require some drastically different thinking.

                    Comment


                    • Trump is so mad at China & Mexico 'cheating' on trade that he's slapping tariffs on Canadian lumber and dairy...

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                      • He has totally sold out to the neocons! When you are attacked by citizens of one country you invade a different one. They never suspect it!
                        To be a professional means that you don't die. - Takeru "the Tsunami" Kobayashi

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                        • m4 is pretty convienient reliable and multifunctional
                          RPG's > LAW
                          but drones are the way to go--knowing the enemys deployment without boots on the ground saves a lot of lives

                          gonna come a day where every battalion commander will have a drone squad to see whats out front of him

                          but the question is how to deal with the little shitstain in Pyongyang

                          the day he tests another nuke is the day trump has to say enough is enough
                          so he retaliates to their ;launch sites and kim dong shitstain unleashes conventional artillery south and obliterates much of seoul

                          gotta be someway to cut off the head of NK before he can pull the trigger

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SeattleLionsFan View Post
                            He has totally sold out to the neocons! When you are attacked by citizens of one country you invade a different one. They never suspect it!

                            It's kind of like the NCAA, when Kentucky commits another infraction Coastal Carolina gets scared.

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                            • Originally posted by crashcourse View Post

                              gonna come a day where every battalion commander will have a drone squad to see whats out front of him
                              Its not a stretch to see armed drones taking over close-support roles from artillery and air assets IMO.

                              The days where whole arty companies are require to protect the front line from massive charges of enemy troops are long gone. Our guys need quick, precise strikes, directed from points as close to the fight as possible. A drone pilot and a Sgt with a laser designator could be more valuable- and safer- than a whole section of field guns. And cheaper.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
                                Trump is so mad at China & Mexico 'cheating' on trade that he's slapping tariffs on Canadian lumber and dairy...
                                Not sure I have a big problem with the lumber side of this...I?m probably not going to complain if hack wants to subsidize cheap lumber for me.

                                The dairy side might be a different story. But, fuck Wisconsin.

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