Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

I don't read typically read Geezer's posts. They seem to almost always lead into the weeds of a topic I have almost no interest in. And there's a entire team of folks ready to jump on whatever he posts and take us into those weeds.

I guess I should adopt the same policy to those who label all that disagree with them as racists, misogynists or otherwise bigots. I can do that.

[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

Froot... those items could be said about numerous groups. That doesn't mean working class whites feel as if someone is listening to them. It's clear to me they are being talked over in favor of others.... heck, Hillary barely campaigned in the rust belt. It was noticed.


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[iam416]

I think it's clear that DJT only because of misogynists and racists R laws designed to take advantage of the fact that black folks aren't able to figure out how to get government ID as well as white folks.

[Wild Hoss]

I think the argument is that she was running AGAINST Trump's personality/character and not so much promoting herself.

That angle I can buy, even if the opposite is inferred by it.

I guess she could have spent more time poking holes in his proposals, but IDK how effective that would have been either considering that Don was selling pixie dust.

She needed a minority candidate as VP to win IMO.

[froot loops]

Ok whatever, part of my post also addresses thing the Democrats did while in office, expanding health care coverage from 79 percent to 90 percent should be considered something. Helping save the auto industry should be considered something. Entropy in his question seemingly dismisses the Democrats by saying it isn't obvious they care about working class white people. Trumpcare was devised as a huge tax cut for the highest earners so they can have more tax cuts down the line, what part of the AHCA was caring about the lower class workers?

[Wild Hoss]

Froot... those items could be said about numerous groups. That doesn't mean working class whites feel as if someone is listening to them. It's clear to me they are being talked over in favor of others.... heck, Hillary barely campaigned in the rust belt. It was noticed.


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Froot makes good points...if what the Ds did economically didn't go far enough (I'd say its clear it did not, in the opinion of the Rust belt voter) that's one thing, but to suggest they had nothing to sell there is misguided IMO.

Social issues I think, is where your breaking-point fits. On that front, the Ds run into the "All Things To All People" conundrum, and it becomes political calculus.

[froot loops]

The weird thing about the lack of campaigning in Michigan is that this was the first time that Michigan was actually a true battleground state. In all the elections prior to this one it was always claimed to be a battleground state but it never was close to be a tipping point state. This was the first year it was and it wasn't being campaigned in all that much.

[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

Hoss... If you're selling and nobody is buying..., are you really effective?

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[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

Besides... where did I say they had nothing to sell? I stated the D's don't care about them. It's a progressive party. That was my first point. I stand by it. D's are not talking to them. Just because something benefits them doesn't mean they are being talked to or listened to... maybe I should have said they are a low priority..? Even then, i'd say it's low enough to suggest they don't care.

Jmo


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[Da Geezer]

She needed a minority candidate as VP to win IMO.

This is precisely the type of thinking that got her defeated. Interest groups....always interest groups. The progs have embarked on the stitching together of disparate minorities to try to form a majority.

As talent says, everything rests on the economy. If the Rs cut taxes and boost growth, that will indeed cement the working class into the party. The swamp has clearly swallowed Trump, though. He claims he needs to pass repeal/replace in order to "free up" savings to compensate for short-term drops in tax collection. That is the essence of Swamp-think. It is baseline budgeting which is another word for moving down the same path we were on. Trump should be as fiscally conservative as his predecessor, and keep the growth of the deficit to a low, low, $ 10 Trillion during his term.

[Wild Hoss]

Hoss... If you're selling and nobody is buying..., are you really effective?

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I don't think anybody would say so, but we need to keep the goal posts rooted to have this discussion before moving onto others. I think Froot's point, with which I agree, is that a failed sell is quite a bit different from no attempt to sell.

In that vein, I go back to the tidal relationship between social and economic issues within this demographic. You can sell me on the point of Ds talking over this demo on social issues, but not economic ones. You can make your case if you separate the two, but not if taken together IMO.

[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

And again... I said nothing about selling originally. You two changed the discussion to fit a conversation you wanted. Not the other way around....

I stick with what I said. Progressive issues is what they cared about. Not rust belt issues.


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[entropy]

Besides... where did I say they had nothing to sell? I stated the D's don't care about them. It's a progressive party. That was my first point. I stand by it. D's are not talking to them. Just because something benefits them doesn't mean they are being talked to or listened to... maybe I should have said they are a low priority..? Even then, i'd say it's low enough to suggest they don't care.

Jmo


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For hoss and froot.. [emoji867][emoji23]


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[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

And I'd also argue post election, dems have avoided any olive branches to that group of voters. I'd say they've basically told them they are not welcome.

If you feel there is evidence otherwise (directed at that group of voters), happy to listen.


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[Wild Hoss]

I think we could spend an eternity discussing which segments of the populace are undersold/underlistened/undercaressed by either party and get nowhere. We?re on a board of majority Rust Belters, so the blue-collar folk of Michigan and Ohio take precedence...that doesn?t mean they soley own these concerns.

Within this narrow focus: Michigan has been historically strong blue. That doesn?t lend itself to a lot of attention. Indiana; different color, same result. Ohio OTOH, has arguably been the most-politicked tract o? land on earth since 2000. How that gets squeezed into the narrative, IDK.

Maybe the conclusion is that if you want to be listened to, you need to prove yourself willing to listen.