Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Hannibal]

Seems like a good guy, the kind of guy you want to steer the nation because you are fed of with political correctness.

I wish that we could have gotten a lady who gets 8 figure payments to her phony charitable foundations from Middle Eastern monarchs.

[Hannibal]

Which is why the country needs Michael Bloomberg. He would be an exceptionally data-driven president. The flaw would be that his comapny's fortunes are directly tied to the number of eyes on screens in the financial sector, so we may not get the financial reform we so badly need, but at least we'd restore a culture data-driven decisionmaking.

I am as data-driven as people come but that doesn't preclude you from making awful decisions. You also can't get data on everything and when it comes to politics, because some data is off limits because it is "hate facts" and it encourages Wrongthink. Well, that and everyone has their own data, so whose data you pick greatly influences your decisions too.

[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

It would be so fascinating to have seen how the conservation movement would have matured if it weren't born of ideology, but was just driven by facts. That would have been an opportunity to present important ideas without the values and ethics angle that pissed off opponents. But I don't know that it gets off the ground without that sense of outrage against greed.

And the same can be said for activism..


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[Dr. Strangelove]

[ame]https://twitter.com/AP/status/844500047307984897[/ame]

[hack]

I can't find an example in history of employers not making gender and skin color the #1 priority in their selection of candidates for employment and promotion?

You are confusing free markets with "lack of the rule of law".

I don't think you can point to any place at any time in which yours/Rand's vision of a market has existed. It's a utopia. It's the other side of the coin to communism. You can reduce that grand idea to one thing, such as color-based hiring, but that's a response only to a tiny fraction of my argument. If that's all you want, then you have it here and now in the vast majority of cases. It's obviously not all you want.

I don't think I'm confused about the relationship of law to free markets. This gets right to the inherent impossibility of your ideology. You want a society dictated by the market and not by a government, but you can't have that without security. With security comes regulation. The whole of human history shows you either have a state, regulation, and more predictable security, or you have an authority figure, his warlords, and unpredictable security. You cannot point to a feasible and sustainable example of the market's security needs being met by a non-state actor.

I'm sure you know under which conditions entrepreneurs are most prepared to take risks and build factories, under which conditions they can access third-party capital.

[Hannibal]

I don't think you can point to any place at any time in which yours/Rand's vision of a market has existed. It's a utopia. It's the other side of the coin to communism. You can reduce that grand idea to one thing, such as color-based hiring, but that's a response only to a tiny fraction of my argument. If that's all you want, then you have it here and now in the vast majority of cases. It's obviously not all you want.

I don't think I'm confused about the relationship of law to free markets. This gets right to the inherent impossibility of your ideology. You want a society dictated by the market and not by a government, but you can't have that without security. With security comes regulation. The whole of human history shows you either have a state, regulation, and more predictable security, or you have an authority figure, his warlords, and unpredictable security. You cannot point to a feasible and sustainable example of the market's security needs being met by a non-state actor.

I'm sure you know under which conditions entrepreneurs are most prepared to take risks and build factories, under which conditions they can access third-party capital.

You are still confusing "free markets" with "lack of rule of law". The former requires the latter. Actually anything that works requires the latter. And if I can't have a free market then I damn well better get rule of law as a consolation prize. The example of institutionalized and legalized discrimination against white people represents the failure of both. You are right that a completely free market utopia isn't achievable but that's not really relevant right now. If we were debating the merits of the Clean Air Act or the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, then yes. But right now we live in a society that makes a trillion dollars a year worth of welfare payments and any major corporation has an army of lawyers and PR representatives who work for them that don't actually add value to the core business. My company has to navigate a regulatory minefield for every project that we build. We even have to do it for projects that the government mandates! We are light years away from a free market.

[entropy]

Jeff... emotions are tied to facts that support Americans being right.


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[Dr. Strangelove]

Little wrinkle just heard today re: Trumpcare.

Senator Johnny Isakson (R-GA) is currently out indefinitely after two back surgeries in less than a month. If any sort of vote is held while he's gone, then McConnell can only afford to lose a single vote, not two.

[Hannibal]

Is there any popular support for it at all? If there is anyone who is worried about reelection it should be Paul Ryan. He has managed to craft a bill that is probalby going to fail despite the Republicans being in control of both houses and the Presidency. If his speakership survives this debacle I will be surprised.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Is there any popular support for it at all? If there is anyone who is worried about reelection it should be Paul Ryan. He has managed to craft a bill that is probalby going to fail despite the Republicans being in control of both houses and the Presidency. If his speakership survives this debacle I will be surprised.

Yes, have noted the conspiracy theories that Trump secretly wants the bill to fail and Ryan take the blame. Not sure that's true anymore though because Trump's putting himself in the spotlight a good amount.

All polling suggests the bill is very unpopular. Destroying the Medicaid aspect of Obamacare is not popular at all in poor regions of the country that went heavily Trump.

[Dr. Strangelove]

This is very minor, but the Admin consistently lies about even minor things

[ame]https://twitter.com/elisefoley/status/844541571865497600[/ame]

[crashcourse]

If we had continued under Obama care the premiums would have ate those alive in the middle class who made enough to support their family but were getting ready to be crushed by a 3-4fold increase in premiums. and benefitted those who cant or wont work --already were on every free program they could get and their expanding numbers were who obamacare was aimed at--more free gifts for those not seeking employment.

under trumpcare the free helath care for 70 million would dwindle creating the so called vacuum of 25 million being uninsured who cant or wont get out and try to make things on their own. It benefits those whom already have coverage by slashing those expensive premiums the middle class was getting ready to be crushed with. one of the main reasons working America said enough is enough and voted that pompous ass into the presidency in the first place

lot of ifs but you have to slash those 70 million who the rest of us support by creating jobs/decreasing the number who cant/wont pay for insurance.

cut the number of people coming into the country that cant take care of themselves
stop the mentality that its economically easier to not work at all then take a job that pays 40-50K a year which is the mentality we have now.

you cut the number of freeloaders and increase the work force and trumpcare would work just fine

[hack]

Little wrinkle just heard today re: Trumpcare.

Senator Johnny Isakson (R-GA) is currently out indefinitely after two back surgeries in less than a month. If any sort of vote is held while he's gone, then McConnell can only afford to lose a single vote, not two.

Is he on Obamacare?

[entropy]

Is he on Obamacare?

congress is special, so their programs for society to not apply to them specifically. =)

[hack]

Even down to paying for postage. We should stop giving those people a government handout.