Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Hannibal]

Hypertension clinics reducing stroke and MI.

Makes logical sense but none of this has translated to lower costs on a macro scale yet. And I suspect that is because, in the end, this type of "pay a little now to pay a lot less later" case isn't very common compared to cases where the high cost is unavoidable.

[hack]

hack -- any time that you want to follow your own advice and actually try to have some debates based on the merits of ideas, be my guest. "This guy's an expert and he's smarter than you" might be good enough for you, but it isn't good enough for me. Experts who were supposedly smarter than me have been guilty of some abhorrently stupid and psychologically dysfunctional ideas ever put forth by mankind.

``You should try to debate based on the merits but I don't have to because not all experts are experts"

You're proving him right. Every single word of it.

[Da Geezer]

Geezer I'm not interested in any discussion about whether Obama bin laden goes in the same bucket as Bill Ayers. That's fucking stupid. I put that in the same bucket as Hannibal claiming he knows more about the Soviets than Kapuscinski. You two are both very good examples of the type of problems he is talking about.

Would you cut and paste for me where Hanni said that?

Neither of us have said we know more than K about the Soviets. What I heard Hanni say is that there are many other considerations than your trinity. I will say that I am an American nationalist, and I am religious. Just because someone doesn't want progressive globalism doesn't make them stupid. It doesn't even make them conservative.

Might I also propose that K has a great more meaning to you because, in some ways, your life has imitated his, and I mean that respectfully You have lived in many places and written about them. I don't know if this was because of your admiration for K or you "discovered" a kindred soul after your travels. That doesn't mean someone is stupid because they don't identify as intensely as you with someone like K.

But Hannibal is correct in saying that Marxism was/is a one-world-seeking progressive attack on nationalism. "Workers of the world unite!...." is pretty specific, and the economic determinism Marx used has been proven to be wrong in multiple cases. That is a simple historical fact. Yet, Hack, you cling to your deterministic view of history and to the Marxist "analysis of the problem". Your words. Where you end up is in precisely the situation K was born into in Poland, or in N Korea.

[Hannibal]

``You should try to debate based on the merits but I don't have to...

I have already done exactly this multiple times. In pretty plain language. You have yet to even try to counter it with something other than a version of "you're wrong, this guy knows better than you".

[hack]

But Hannibal is correct in saying that Marxism was/is a one-world-seeking progressive attack on nationalism. "Workers of the world unite!...." is pretty specific, and the economic determinism Marx used has been proven to be wrong in multiple cases. That is a simple historical fact. Yet, Hack, you cling to your deterministic view of history and to the Marxist "analysis of the problem". Your words. Where you end up is in precisely the situation K was born into in Poland, or in N Korea.


I am not a Marxist and think the solution offered was ridiculous and completely ignorant of human nature. I think the same thing about objectivism. They are the utopias at either end of the scale. Objectivists in the GOP say the same thing as Marxists -- the true form of the idea has never been tried. Hanni says that frequently, when he refers to the GOP always selling out its voters and what they really want. The truth is that these are both stupid ideas that can't be tried because human nature just doesn't work that way. People who believe in that extreme stuff are either college kids intoxicated by the purity of the ideas or, if they haven't grown out of it, have trouble moving from theory to actual. These ideas just don't apply to reality. The Bolsheviks may have claimed to be post-nationalist, but words are cheap and actions a better guide. Maybe the post-nationalist egghead stuff would have without the Trotsky/Stalin clash, but so what? We have reality. We can look at it and see Soviet nationalism.

[Da Geezer]

As for how the left views them, that too sounds like an unsupported assertion. I definitely see Christianity as a big problem. It's trying to curtail my liberties. I have no problem with religious faith on a personal level. If it's a code by which you live your life then that is your business. When it rises to a movement that tries to tell others what to do or assets an inherent superiority, that's dangerous. Then you add on the expansionism and the delusions of being the one true belief system that will rule them all, of course after violent upheaval as predicted in the holy books and as desired by the fundamentalists.

I'm not trying to be funny. Are you talking about Islam or Christianity? What religion does not assert its superiority? Islam (Submission) is the only religion I know of which calls for the destruction of other religions by force of arms.

[hack]

Just because someone doesn't want progressive globalism doesn't make them stupid. It doesn't even make them conservative.

Bernie doesn't want it either, and he's who I'd like to see in power if not Larry Lessig, who isn't chasing it seriously. Which gets back the original point -- the labels are harmful. Hanni thinks he knows who I am because he has me labeled, but it's obviously more complex than that. There are people who voted for Bernie in the primaries and Trump in the general. Those people are taking things on the merits, and it's great that we have them around. That's how to do it. They might have been duped in the end and didn't see it coming, but at least they were looking at the merits of the things coming out of the mouths of the candidates, rather than just running with the labels that Hanni treasures so much.

[Hannibal]

Hanni says that frequently, when he refers to the GOP always selling out its voters and what they really want.

The Republicans do frequently sell out their voters, but it's not because they are settling on a practical, workable solution. It's because they are cowardly, and they have a badly distorted view of what the populace wants and what will make them angry. They are also afraid to rock the boat and they would rather retain their golf engagement with fellow Democrats and then be a regular guest on Sunday talk shows.

[hack]

[/I]

I'm not trying to be funny. Are you talking about Islam or Christianity? What religion does not assert its superiority? Islam (Submission) is the only religion I know of which calls for the destruction of other religions by force of arms.

I don't know. I don't know enough about the pan-theists, but I'd be surprised if there was a religion that claims that other religions are equally valid. Which is precisely the problem. But Christianity has its end-times final triumph bullshit too, though slightly different from Islam's.

[Hannibal]

Just because someone doesn't want progressive globalism doesn't make them stupid. It doesn't even make them conservative.

Bernie doesn't want it either, and he's who I'd like to see in power if not Larry Lessig, who isn't chasing it seriously. Which gets back the original point -- the labels are harmful. Hanni thinks he knows who I am because he has me labeled, but it's obviously more complex than that. There are people who voted for Bernie in the primaries and Trump in the general. Those people are taking things on the merits, and it's great that we have them around. That's how to do it. They might have been duped in the end and didn't see it coming, but at least they were looking at the merits of the things coming out of the mouths of the candidates, rather than just running with the labels that Hanni treasures so much.

When you consistently find merit in more regulation, the massive redistribution of wealth, and unabated multiculturalism, then there is a label that is appropriate for you. I don't give a shit if you like it. It helps enforce intellectual honesty in a world where much is accomplished through dishonesty and subterfuge. This is especially true of the Left and all of the progress that they have enjoyed over the past 50 years. The Cloward-Piven strategy doesn't work as well when people call out the poison pills. If only this had happened with the Hart-Cellar Act or Obamacare.

[hack]

The Republicans do frequently sell out their voters, but it's not because they are settling on a practical, workable solution. It's because they are cowardly, and they have a badly distorted view of what the populace wants and what will make them angry. They are also afraid to rock the boat and they would rather retain their golf engagement with fellow Democrats and then be a regular guest on Sunday talk shows.

It's because they are profiting handsomely from doing so. Rs have to stop buying in to the idea of a utopia that is structurally impossible to achieve. Those leaders make it hard by feeding you a constant stream of confirmation-bias bullshit, stoking false fears, and relying on labels rather than arguing the merits.

[crashcourse]

people need to face the consequences of their lifestyles

if you have advanced lung disease/liver disease/heart disease/cancer there comes a point where the government needs to quit paying your medical bills

that's the only way costs can be controlled and I really don't know why we continue to dick around thinking the government should pay so that you can smoke or eat to gain 20 more pounds another 6 months with your lung cancer or heart disease or uncontrolled diabetes
Im all for preventive for anybody and everybody

but when you get to the point you cant prevent something or very high likelihood u wont the government needs to stop paying

we spend way too much money on things we cant prevent

[crashcourse]

by the time I post something there are 10 responses and the subject has switched 2-3 times

adds to the wtf is he talking about factor

[entropy]

crash.. it is always tough to tell someone they should no longer try or hope is lost. That would be a drastic transformation to our health system. Not saying you're right or wrong, just that is even more of a transformation than rewarding/promoting preventative care.

[iam416]

adds to the wtf is he talking about factor

Yeah, but you always have that dialed up to 10. Though, I do suspect you like to have the Spinal Tap option of an 11, and you're certainly capable.