Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Whitley]

Talent:

I thought you were ambivalent on charters, but, hey, welcome.

In Michigan, charters are held to exactly the same standards as government schools, with the exception that they are allowed to limit the number of students to the capacity of the school. In addition, charters in MI are incessantly attacked by the Teacher's Unions, and face a hostile press for the most part.

I've asked once before if anyone here can find a Forbes article titled "The Michigan Mafia" from about 1993. This was the seminal piece in the development of charters in Michigan. The MEA was the first NEA local to adopt industrial union tactics in terms of strikes, stoppages, intimidation, and political activism. The breaking point was a strike in Kalkaska, MI, when all teachers walked off in April.

In any event, Betsy DeVos will do at the DOEd what she has always done, hire the best and the brightest to implement her (Trump's) policies. She will not touch vouchers. No chance, but you will hear a lot about vouchers from those who are threatened by an Ed Secretary who trusts parents more than she does teachers. Michigan has always amplified the teachers v. parents dichotomy because union teachers are the highest paid in the US.

Whitley should be concerned. When she/he speaks of dismantling public education, he/she means dismantling the gross overpayment and total job security that government teachers in MI now have.

Betsy is that you?

[Ghengis Jon]

Not trying to be snide, Geez, but who are you to say who is overpaid and who isn't? I had several teachers in public high school who inspired and motivated me in ways that made me successful in life. I watched first hand how they changed students for the better. At my 40th HS reunion, there are still former students that speak glowingly about those dedicated professionals. Sure there's bad apples, but that goes in any line of work. Just because public school teachers aren't paid peanuts and subject to dismissal on a whim like a charter school doesn't mean they're overpaid or have total job security. You disparage some shining lights unfairly.

DeVos is a charter school proponent. She and her hubby have donated millions to the cause of the years. Being in favor of charters (and an R) should not be the sole criteria for head of the DOE. She is woefully unqualified and I'm certain there are vastly more qualified conservatives that would better fit the bill. Being a member of the billionaire's club should not be a get-a-job-in-gov't free pass.

[Da Geezer]

That was a good article Talent. Lots of stuff I didn't know about. I don't believe there are any non-public charters in MI, but it might have changed since 2013 which is the last date I sat on any committees. There mere fact that OH has a category of Non-Public charters means that the operative definition of "charter" is different in OH than in MI.

Hack, once again you blame profit as a reason to oppose something worthwhile. Please note that Ohio's ISACS schools are non-profit. I believe Talent when he says these are good schools.

Also, note that Whitley cannot give any concrete examples where Charters in MI are treated differently than government schools. In the period from 1994-7 or so, the legislative trade was 150 charters allowed out-state for the Rs if no charters entered Detroit. With the success of out-state charters, Detroit was opened-up. The board Whitley mentions was going to be union-dominated and fell away when the PARENTS in Detroit insisted on charter schools.

[CGVT]

Alternative facts

[Da Geezer]

Bullshit

She is a piece of shit with an anti-public school agenda.

Fuck her and her vouchers and teach Christianity in schools philosophy.

Carry on.

An incisive piece of writing by an Alabama teacher.

[froot loops]

That's the default retort of Da Geezer. It doesn't have to be right.

[CGVT]

After struggling to come up with the votes in the Michigan Senate to pass a controversial Republican House plan that would have funded the creation of a new Detroit school district, while, at the same time, allowing Michigan charter schools to continue operating without meaningful oversight, something apparently happened to tip the scales. The legislation, which was lauded by the Michigan charter school industry, passed the Senate on June 8 by a one vote margin. While it’s difficult to say for certain why Senate Republicans eventually agreed to get onboard and support the bill, some think the answer may be found in newly released campaign finance reports, which show large contributions being given to the Republican Party and several individual lawmakers through members of the DeVos family and their various “school choice” advocacy organizations, just days after the legislation was passed. The following clip comes from an opinion piece in yesterday’s Detroit Free Press by Stephen Henderson.

…The DeVos family, owners of the largest charter lobbying organization, has showered Michigan Republican candidates and organizations with impressive and near-unprecedented amounts of money this campaign cycle: $1.45 million in June and July alone — over a seven-week period, an average of $25,000 a day.

The giving began in earnest on June 13, just five days after Republican members of the state Senate reversed themselves on the question of whether Michigan charter schools need more oversight.

There’s nothing more difficult than proving quid pro quos in politics, the instances in which favor is returned for specific monetary support.

But look at the amounts involved, and consider the DeVos’ near-sole interest in the issue of school choice. It’s a fool’s errand to imagine a world in which the family’s deep pockets haven’t skewed the school debate to the favor of their highly financed lobby…

Back in March, the Senate voted to place charter schools under the same authority as public schools in the city, for quality control and attention to population need and balance, in line with a plan that had been in the works for more than a year, endorsed and promoted by Republican Gov. Rick Snyder.

But when the bills moved to the state House, lawmakers gutted that provision, returning a bill to the Senate that preserved the free-for-all charter environment that has locked Detroit in an educational morass for two decades. After less than a week of debate, the Senate caved.

Even then, several legislators complained that the influence of lobbyists, principally charter school lobbyists, was overwhelming substantive debate. The effort was intense, they said, and unrelenting.

Now we know what was at stake.

Five days later, several members of the DeVos family made the maximum allowable contributions to the Michigan Republican Party, a total of roughly $180,000.

The next day, DeVos family members made another $475,000 in contributions to the party.

It was the beginning of a spending spree that would swell to $1.45 million in contributions to the party and to individual candidates by the end of July, according to an analysis by the Michigan Campaign Finance Network…

So, instead of slowing the onslaught of charter schools while we study the issue, or establishing a commission appointed by the Mayor of Detroit to, in the words of Detroit’s Channel 4, “regulate the opening of new schools — including independent, publicly funded charters that have drawn students and funding away from traditional neighborhood schools”, as had been suggested, we’ve got no oversight, and our for-profit charter free-for-all will continue unchecked. And it looks as though we have the DeVos family and their Amway empire to thank for it. Now, I guess, we just wait and see how long it takes for Detroit Public Schools, and then every other public school district in the state, to fold… As State Senator Bert Johnson of Highland Park noted, this “paternalistic” and “unethical” legislation will surely “drive (DPS) enrollment further into the ground.”… And that, I think I can say with some degree of certainty, has been the goal all along. This was never about giving poor students more options. This has always about breaking the back of the teachers union, while, at the same time, transferring public education dollars into the hands of private investors.

[Wild Hoss]

So we have established there are different standards between public and charter schools.

Now, enrollment. Public schools must provide an education for all students in their footprint; at-risk, disabled, what have you. Is that also a standard that charters are held to? Must they by law accept any student who shows up with their voucher and any funds needed to bridge the cost between it and base attendance for instance?

[CGVT]

Hey, Geezer.

I am not a teacher you sanctimonious jackass.

[hack]

Hack, once again you blame profit as a reason to oppose something worthwhile.

With plenty of good reason. I know what conditions are required for private activity to exceed public alternatives in quality.

[Da Geezer]

Jon:

Sure there's bad apples, but that goes in any line of work. Just because public school teachers aren't paid peanuts and subject to dismissal on a whim like a charter school doesn't mean they're overpaid or have total job security. You disparage some shining lights unfairly.

You make a good point about the debt we owe our Public School teachers. I had great ones too, and owe them a lot. And I had terrible teachers too. One factor the out-of-state reader might not realize is that MI has had a vast oversupply of teachers for at least the last 30 years. Have you ever wondered how many great teachers were not hired because tenure protected the incompetent?

[Da Geezer]

So we have established there are different standards between public and charter schools.

Heh. Declare victory and go home (again). No such proof as been offered.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________

added after googling the donation totals:

Let's see, $ 1.45 million by the DeVos family. $ 37 million by the AFT and the MEA. This might be a good article to read:

https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/devos-charters-school-choice-threaten-democratic-party-finances

[CGVT]

This article disagrees with the Geezer.

Must be fake news

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/06/22/michigan-spends-1b-on-charter-schools-but-fails-to-hold/77155074/

[hack]

Geezer complains about any restraints applied to his commercial activities, and has donated significant amounts of time serving charter schools, for which he has received no compensation.

Let's just take him at his word on this one.

[iam416]

The sense I get from charter schools is that the good ones -- the ones that are oversubscribed -- work better than urban public schools but not as well as suburban public schools. At least that's what I gather from a cursory review of the literature which seems to indicate that charters clearly outperforming city schools and arguably underperforming suburban schools.

This also confirms my visceral guess, so I see no further need to look into it!

In any event, it matters not one lick to me. I live in a good school district. It should matter to folks who don't. And, I think it does.