Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

I would have nominated a more qualified, pro-charter candidate if I were DJT. But whether she was confirmed or not, the DoE was getting a pro-charter candidate. Period. The Ds can dress up their concerns about DeVos as "unqualified", but it's because she's pro-charter -- and that's not a great argument for them. So they went with unqualified. They can't win on the charter issue, though.

But, look, you're on record. As are a number of others with their armageddon predictions.

And, FTR, I'm very much pro-charter, but I'm also very much pro-accountability. Ohio has the same problem in that they don't hold charters to the same accountability as publics.

[hack]

I would very much like to have a sense of what's possible. It's often said that Washington is a big ship and changing directions takes time. That, however, presumes a typical approach to taking the wheel. Trump's hasn't been typical. I would guess that in reality there's not so much she can do, especially in four years, and with a liberal war chest surging with dollars to pay lawyers to fight things. But I don't know. Education is not my field.

[iam416]

I'm not sure how someone who is, apparently, so brazenly incompetent, can mastermind a massive and destructive sea change in a Federal Department in the space of 4 years. I don't think someone who is incomparably competent could do that.

[hack]

Well I can see the narrative. I'm sure that if left unchecked she probably could. But I don't see that she will be.

[Whitley]

I would have nominated a more qualified, pro-charter candidate if I were DJT. But whether she was confirmed or not, the DoE was getting a pro-charter candidate. Period. The Ds can dress up their concerns about DeVos as "unqualified", but it's because she's pro-charter -- and that's not a great argument for them. So they went with unqualified. They can't win on the charter issue, though.

But, look, you're on record. As are a number of others with their armageddon predictions.

And, FTR, I'm very much pro-charter, but I'm also very much pro-accountability. Ohio has the same problem in that they don't hold charters to the same accountability as publics.

I dont have a problem with charters per se. Like you I have a problem with accountability that Michigan does not have at all. I have a major problem that DeVos has pushed for no accountability. The hearing of DeVos she was beyond awful in.

What I do have a major problem is taking public money and giving it to religious schools.

I honestly expect DeVos to push charters with no accountability as much as she can. I think she will look the other way in regards with regulations as much as she can.

[Wild Hoss]

Why is there is an accountability discrepancy between public and charter schools?

[Whitley]

Why is there is an accountability discrepancy between public and charter schools?

I cant speak for Ohio, but in Michigan the DeVos family controls the politics on the west side. Anyone that runs as a Republican must support charter school(s) vision that DeVos has. Otherwise, they go out and find someone that will support them in every way on charters.

Originally, there was going to be an oversight committee for opening and closing public and charter schools in Detroit. The idea of this was to make sure communities were served, so all over the city could have choice in public education. The DeVos family (especially Betsy) were upset at this because the committee would also have hold public and charter accountable. The state legislature goes on summer recess. Over the next 2 months, the DeVos family gives $2 million to various legislatures. When they come back, all oversight (and the committee itself) was left out of the DPS package.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Why is there is an accountability discrepancy between public and charter schools?

In Ohio the state government has failed to closely monitor what charter schools were doing. I know at least a few have been shut down for essentially committing fraud, claiming many more students than they actually had attending and collecting the $ per head from the state.

I don't know if the system's been effectively reformed or not. Our State Sec. of Education made surprise visits to a bunch of schools a while back and was quite disappointed in what he found.

I really don't have too much of a problem with charters either but like any govt. service that gets turned over to a private contractor who has shareholders to please, there needs to be tight monitoring and making sure your wonderful private sector businessman isn't cutting corners for profit.

[iam416]

Why is there is an accountability discrepancy between public and charter schools?

That's a good question. It's certainly with the powers of the State to hold charter schools accountable. But, in Ohio (and I'm gathering in M), charter schools are not held to the same standards. When Ohio had massive standardized testing, charter schools were not subject.

So, yeah, I don't get it. I think charter schools can be a really, really good thing. I have no interest in telling people who live in a shit public school district they can't seek something better. I also have zero interest in teaching to the unicorn of the least common denominator.

They can be very good, IMO, if done correctly and properly accountable.

Addendum -- I was just reading through this link on Ohio charter schools: http://education.ohio.gov/getattachm...26-16.pdf.aspx

Apparently you have two classes of schools -- merely chartered through the Ohio DoE and a charter school that is also ISACS-accredited. Chartered schools do not have to pass the same graduation test, but can choose an alternative test. However, the alternative test and passing scores are spelled out.

The list of ISACS-accredited schools is impressive -- all of them are really good. The non ISACS-accredited schools are probably where it gets really dicey -- from good schools to some real shit schools. Now, they all have standards they have to pass -- so there is that, but they have multiple options available to them that public schools do not.

Interesting. I learned myself some new shit thanks to that interwebs thingy.

[Dr. Strangelove]

And I think there's legit doubts to be had that DeVos, who seems wholly unqualified, will be effective in bringing accountability to all. Especially if its true that the DeVos family has always fought against public oversight of her charters.

[hack]

Well it sure looks like another example of shitting on a public service in the service of somebody who wants to profit from offering an alternative and has paid politicians to make it possible. Duck test.

[Dr. Strangelove]

It was Law Enforcement show & tell at the White House today. One sheriff from Texas complained to the President that a state Senator was giving the cops a hard time over asset forfeiture (the Senator is an R though that shouldn't matter)

Trump joked: What his name? Want us to destroy their career?

Delighted laughter

Actually, the issue of asset forfeiture is a serious one and folks should read up. The Senator who wants the system reformed (and has bipartisan support) thinks someone should have to be convicted of a crime before the police can seize all their money and property. This Texas Sheriff thinks that's mighty unfair.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I guess it comes down to do you believe his accusers...

Why are his accusers worse than trumps accusers and admissions?

[Da Geezer]

Talent:

And, FTR, I'm very much pro-charter, but I'm also very much pro-accountability. Ohio has the same problem in that they don't hold charters to the same accountability as publics.

I thought you were ambivalent on charters, but, hey, welcome.

In Michigan, charters are held to exactly the same standards as government schools, with the exception that they are allowed to limit the number of students to the capacity of the school. In addition, charters in MI are incessantly attacked by the Teacher's Unions, and face a hostile press for the most part.

I've asked once before if anyone here can find a Forbes article titled "The Michigan Mafia" from about 1993. This was the seminal piece in the development of charters in Michigan. The MEA was the first NEA local to adopt industrial union tactics in terms of strikes, stoppages, intimidation, and political activism. The breaking point was a strike in Kalkaska, MI, when all teachers walked off in April.

In any event, Betsy DeVos will do at the DOEd what she has always done, hire the best and the brightest to implement her (Trump's) policies. She will not touch vouchers. No chance, but you will hear a lot about vouchers from those who are threatened by an Ed Secretary who trusts parents more than she does teachers. Michigan has always amplified the teachers v. parents dichotomy because union teachers are the highest paid in the US.

Whitley should be concerned. When she/he speaks of dismantling public education, he/she means dismantling the gross overpayment and total job security that government teachers in MI now have.

[CGVT]

Bullshit

She is a piece of shit with an anti-public school agenda.

Fuck her and her vouchers and teach Christianity in schools philosophy.

Carry on.