Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Hannibal]

Other countries absolutely ration health care, leaving people untreated, so yes.

[froot loops]

Other countries absolutely ration health care, leaving people untreated, so yes.

Can you point to a study showing how many plugs are pulled on granny so we can get a sense of perspective?

[hack]

Careful what you wish for there. I'm sure there are any number of dark corners and/or beacons of truth and accuracy from which something of the sort can be procured and then believed.

[froot loops]

If you try searching for it on google it is all kinds of crank websites.

[entropy]

I don't know about pulling plugs, but certain care/surgeries are not an option after a certain age..

Why give a 65 yr old a new kidney when hooking him up to a machine every so often works just fine. Waiting in line or weeks for care is fine, after all.. patients should be patient.

No question lower costs are due to a curb in supply. Question is for the spend in the US, is it worth it? That's really tough to measure.

[froot loops]

For the record, if you repeal the ACA and the Medicare expansion, the CBO has scored it as 32 million losing health coverage or going untreated.

[Wild Hoss]

I don't know about pulling plugs, but certain care/surgeries are not an option after a certain age..

This is how my paternal grandmother passed; once her last option was bone-marrow transplant, at age 80, she essentially received a death sentence. And really, nobody in the family disagreed; the idea that she be in line for one along with children or young parents was never considered, even by those who loved her.

What would have been nice was the option to end it quickly, in lieu of the excruciating final week of her "life". On this, I agree with Ghengis; IDK why its anybody else's decision.

[Hannibal]

If you try searching for it on google it is all kinds of crank websites.

Does that include Left Wing sites like slate, that argue in favor of Death Panels because they are necessary to manage costs?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/10/canada_has_death_panels_and_that_s_a_good_thing.html

When taxpayers provide only a finite number of acute care beds in public hospitals, a patient whose life has all but ended, but whose family insists on keeping her on life support, is occupying precious space that might otherwise house a patient whose best years are still ahead.

Finite resources = rationed health care = beauracrats are eventually empowered to make broad life-death decisions to manage budgets. Anyone who has had a high school econmics course and read the sections about price controls understands this. But Democrats either simple pretend that the basic rules of price controls don't apply, or insist that it won't happen because the government is magically going to make everything so much cheaper and more efficient that we won't have to worry about budget (just look at what a bangup job they did setting up that website). The question about whether it is worth it to spend $50,000 to extend somebody's life for a year is unavoidable. At least Slate is honest about it.

Fucksakes just own it.

[froot loops]

I was asking for data on countries with universal health coverage. You should see all of these grannies having the plug pulled. You could give some raw numbers. 15 grannies in Sweden, heartlessly pulled off life support.






You do realize most grannies are on government t health care right now and there are treatments that medicare doesn't cover right now. In fact that goes for a lot of insurance in this country, there are many treatments that could be life saving that aren't covered.

[Wild Hoss]

[hack]

Bureaucrats already do make some of those decisions, yes.

[Jeff Buchanan]

There are hundreds of ways to ration care (manage costs) and as we've already discussed, a lot of them are currently in place and working fairly well (Medicaid).

Debating the utility and ethics of "Death Panels" is a fruitless endeavor. Debating the efficacy and efficiency of the various methods of cost containment of any health care delivery system, national or otherwise, is useful. The information is out there but rarely discussed in any detail anywhere.

The topic of Death Panels is just a juicier topic for editors these days seeking to gain web-site clicks or improve hard copy distribution and sales.

[Hannibal]

Governments generally aren't in the habit of compiling and publicizing their failures, but there are plenty of stories out there about government health care rationing or just outright fuckups in other countries.

By far my favorite is the 2003 heat wave in France that killed over 14,000 people. Over 14,000 people -- by a heat wave. Have you ever heard of 14,000 people dying from heat in the United States in the span of a couple of weeks? Ever? It's not like we haven't had any heat waves in the last 50 years.

France's health care system was so shitty that it couldn't handle a heat wave. The link below blames it on inaction by the government and a lack of resources (It is from a Socialist web site, so you know it must be true)

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/09/fran-s09.html

[Whitley]

Besty DeVos hearing:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/18/six-astonishing-things-betsy-devos-said-and-refused-to-say-at-her-confirmation-hearing/?postshare=1831484756331329&tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.ae6502ebc38a

And on higher education:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/01/18/what-we-learned-about-betsy-devoss-higher-education-positions-not-much/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.dd815ab43af6

I am not sure who did worse in their confirmation hearing Tillerson or DeVos.

[froot loops]

Governments generally aren't in the habit of compiling and publicizing their failures, but there are plenty of stories out there about government health care rationing or just outright fuckups in other countries.

By far my favorite is the 2003 heat wave in France that killed over 14,000 people. Over 14,000 people -- by a heat wave. Have you ever heard of 14,000 people dying from heat in the United States in the span of a couple of weeks? Ever? It's not like we haven't had any heat waves in the last 50 years.

France's health care system was so shitty that it couldn't handle a heat wave. The link below blames it on inaction by the government and a lack of resources (It is from a Socialist web site, so you know it must be true)

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/09/fran-s09.html

This is different than finding stats on pulling the plug on granny. We heard about these death panels during the passage in ACA. I'm not sure what the France thing has to do with this discussion. Trump said he would give insurance for everyone, it doesn't have to be France's.

But if you do repeal the ACA, you do need to provide specifics on its replace as DJT promised would be put forward. You fashion yourself to be better than the Democrats, you own all three branches, put up or shut up. Let's see the replacement, which is terrific BTW, has lower deductibles and better coverage as promised by your leader DJT.

It doesn't have to be governments compiling data on pulling the plug, certainly some conservative think tank could come up with how many plugs pulled in Scandinavia.