Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[entropy]

hack.. are you suggesting my comments are wrong? That our society currently believes in freedom of speech as long as I agree with that speech? (I'm not talking about exceptions, but the general culture of the right and left..)

Because I see that from both sides..

[AlabamAlum]

And, as an atheist pseudo-progressive, I will concede that there are many religions worse than the current iteration of Christianity.

[entropy]

Of course it is. It's obvious. It's a constant battle, and in the US the battle is between progressives and christians. I'd gain considerably more respect for the progressive side of things if they condemned religions that are far worse than christianity in terms of small "l" liberal freedoms. But, they don't.

I've found the progressives to be the most offended by my "you behave the same way" comments. I do find that curious in itself.

[iam416]

I don't give a shit is a conservative ideal.

It's a classical liberal idea that both parties have gotten away from in their own way and both substantially so. One's partisanship probably dictates which side you feel is worse, but neither is particular close to Locke. And it's a shame.

[AlabamAlum]

No one wants to be told they act identical to what they lampoon and hate. Even if it's true. I'm sure that's fairly universal.

[iam416]

Talent, as a personal aside, are you religious now? You once were part of the encroaching atheist horde with me. Have you now found Zeus, Odin, Ra, Jehovah, or Lord Saban?

Are you fucking nuts? I believe in Urban Fucking Meyer and nothing else. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure the prophet mohammed could go 61-5, so I may be closer to placing my trust in a deity than I originally thought.

[AlabamAlum]

Lord Saban loved Urban the most. It's a pity he had to cast him out.

Tebow wept.

[entropy]

hack..

so you understand my point of view.. I don't know the right answer on the 135K fine. Part of me says you shouldn't be able to deny service to anyone.. and it's a dumb business decisions. The other part of me says why should anyone have the right to impose their views on mine?

I don't think the answer is easy. I also don't think either side wants a resolution that involves any level of compromise or acceptance.

[entropy]

No one wants to be told they act identical to what they lampoon and hate. Even if it's true. I'm sure that's fairly universal.

well, yes.. But I used the term most offended for a comparison of the two.

[hack]

hack.. are you suggesting my comments are wrong? That our society currently believes in freedom of speech as long as I agree with that speech? (I'm not talking about exceptions, but the general culture of the right and left..)

Because I see that from both sides..

No. I deleted my comment because I knew exactly what was coming from talent, and have no interest in that sorta stuff.

I don't think false equivalence is helpful. Michigan has a football team, for example. So does Chicago, and so does your local high school. Calling them all ``football players'' is silly. Finding equivalence in the way progressives treat conservatives is also silly. I also find some of them annoying and small-minded, just like many of you do, but that's not going to lead me to make up this sort of bullshit. Let's see a progressive shoot up an abortion clinic or a gay bar, or pretend that a local business is a pedo ring and show up with whatever's the progressive version of a deadly firearm. Let's see them attempt to ban basic freedoms via constitutional amendments, or launch a birther campaign claiming Trump's still a German. Etc. etc. Let's see that shit before letting a distaste for the vibe overwhelm any sensible ability to evaluate the actual ideas.

[Wild Hoss]

Tebow wept.

That made me chuckle aloud. Well played sir.

[iam416]

You're not being helpful, Hoss.

[hack]

hack..

so you understand my point of view.. I don't know the right answer on the 135K fine. Part of me says you shouldn't be able to deny service to anyone.. and it's a dumb business decisions. The other part of me says why should anyone have the right to impose their views on mine?

I don't think the answer is easy. I also don't think either side wants a resolution that involves any level of compromise or acceptance.

I agree, and find you open to reasonable discussion, even though I disagree with your tendency to say ``the other side does it too''. Much of what religious people demand isn't reasonable. No reasonable expectation that I should live as they do. That won't stop them from trying though. I can genuinely get behind the idea that someone shouldn't have to make a gay wedding cake. I won't think that person is a good person or able to correctly understand their own religious beliefs, but it's not a crime to be stupid or an asshole. If people really have that much of a problem with it they should be left alone to ride out their days in hatred. But, this is what you're gonna get. Most gay people have spent a lifetime being shit on by religious people, or forced to conform. So there's going to be a subset of them that seeks to entrench their newfound rights by jamming those rights down the throats of those in opposition. They are simply giving back what they got for years and years.

I myself don't support it. I'd rather not force anyone to move with the times if they truly cannot or will not. I'd rather leave them alone to do their own thing until they age out. I think it's proven to be a better way. But every movement is going to have all types. Better to quarantine the extremists in one single room and let them fight it out. I hope this thread doesn't become that room.

[entropy]

hack.. and many religious people would say what progressives demand isn't reasonable as well. It's a point of view argument.

btw.. you're being very libertarian today. =)

[entropy]

You're not being helpful, Hoss.

Hoss works for the gov't. I'm not sure he'll understand the term helpful.