Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Mike]

Or a Tuesday night in Columbus.

[Mike]

Ent, you're a rain cloud on an otherwise beautiful day. Thanks bud!

[entropy]

mike... LOL

I'm a Michigan winter.

[CGVT]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...19-column.html

Chicago column on urban unrest


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No to school vouchers. The parents that give a shit will move their kids. The rest will fall farther into the abyss.

Strong public education is the key to a solid society.

[iam416]

That's not realistic.

[iam416]

If you want to talk about paying off voters, well, heh, that's a long conversation involving both parties.

As to your point, school vouchers and school choice remain relatively popular amongst urban voters - the people who actually care. There is a definite lack of alignment with the Ds party line.


White liberals -- heh, to reference an article posted by entropy -- are typically appalled, however.

[CGVT]

School vouchers and "choice". Only work for those with the wherewithal to exercise that choice. The kids that really need the help don't benifit from it. They are stuck in bad school s that will only decline further as funds for these schools are stripped. Vouchers hurt the students that don't have supportive parents or those that don't have the funds to take advantage of the voucher.

[iam416]

Eh, what do I care. In Ohio there are over 600 school districts. East Cleveland is 6th, Youngstown City Schools is 7th in per pupil spending, Cincinnati City is 18th, Columbus is 19th and Cleveland is 24th. It's not like they're going to further increase spending there, so meh. Those schools will remain trash because, obviously, bad schools are a symptom of poverty. Unless you address the underlying problem, you can throw gads of money at the schools with little effect.

So, the band-aid solution is to give interested and active parents an out. That includes not only private school but with the expansion of open enrollment, public school options as well.

But, whatever. As long as folks aren't insisting on spending more money on city schools, I'm happy. Heh--in Mahoning County, Youngstown City schools have, by far and away, the highest per pupil expenditure. My alma mater is roughly HALF of what Youngstown spends. I reckon roughly 95% of parents would send their kids to my former HS over Youngstown East.

[iam416]

Vouchers hurt the students that don't have supportive parents or those that don't have the funds to take advantage of the voucher

Well, at least they help SOMEONE. I'd love to hear what you propose to help children with unsupportive shitty parents who are almost certainly unwed. I'd love to hear what you propose the Government should do to fix fucked up families.

[CGVT]

Strong neighborhood public schools is a start

[iam416]

That's not a meaningful answer. HOW do you get "strong neighborhood public schools"? HOW?

[SeattleLionsFan]

They'll be strong. Believe me.

I tend to agree with CGVT on this, but do not think I have the expertise to say what the answer is. I don't think vouchers are it though.

[iam416]

I'm open to alternatives. But as of now I believe shitty schools are symptomatic of poverty like, e.g., crime. Nothing changes meaningfully until the root cause is addressed. Until that happens, school choice provides relief for a few...which exceeds none.

[Dr. Strangelove]

That's not a meaningful answer. HOW do you get "strong neighborhood public schools"? HOW?

One way to NOT do it is to fund schools primarily through local property taxes. You know, the way Ohio funds its schools...which was declared unconstitutional almost 20 years ago and still hasn't been fixed.

I'm generally ok with charter schools and vouchers. Whatever. So long as they are held to the same standards as the public schools are. But they need to be closely supervised, as we're learning here in Ohio.

[iam416]

I look at per pupil expensitures, DSL. The unconstitutional funding generally hoses Appalachian districts as evidenced by expenditures. City schools still spend gads per pupil. Anecdotally, the Facebook-Newark $100M partnership is worth reading about.

Ohio charter schools are flawed for exactly the reasons you stated. Open enrollment programs, however, are different.