Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... you want to paint the entire civil rights movement as being complicit in this and that's simply wrong. And I want to counter the narrative that's pounded in daily by conservatives here that America is in worse shape than it's ever been...because actual facts and statistics always seem to counteract that narrative.

I'll be as clear as I can be ...... the civil rights activism that is out front right now, defining it, is cop killing. There is more loud, fierce, angry dialogue, inciting violence than there are voices of peaceful resistance and utilization of respectability politics that has, in the past, defined the Civil Rights movement. I don't think there is any other way to see it. I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this.

I grew up in the 60s, experienced every bit of the Black Panthers, the Weathermen, all of it. The Black Panthers did have some of the same core philosophies of the BLM movement (expose police brutality against blacks) but in the early days, they were not at all about cop killing and when they trended to that line, got more violent in the mid to late 70s, they were stopped dead in their tracks by the FBI who waged an effective campaign in the press exposing the Black Panther leadership as thugs, extortionists and drug dealers. As time passed, their philosophies were rejected by moderate mainstream blacks championing the Civil Rights movement and the organization vanished by the end of the 80s.

Anti-war activism fueled the Weathermen. They weren't at all about Civil Rights or rectifying perceived injustices directed at blacks. They just wanted to over-throw the government and they planted bombs wherever they could, lit fires wherever they could thinking they could achieve that end. Stupid.

The current activism is entirely different. It is a sick blend of seeking redress for perceived grievances involving violence inflicted on blacks by the police mixed with the gun violence that is permeating our culture. That wasn't present in the 60s.

And, frankly, what I have said in this singular post says nothing about the fact that the perceived grievances about which activists are focusing today - state violence directed at blacks - is based on questionable characterizations of it by the police. I don't think that was the case in the 60s when the Klan was prominently active in the South and racism was strongly embedded in white culture there. Legitimate grievances abounded.

I think there is somewhere in this discussion where we can find that most of us agree that if those blacks who were injured or killed by police had acted responsibly by obeying the orders of officers trying to carry out their duties, had not resisted arrests, had not try to fight with or flee from police authority, there would have been less death and injury. See the Chris Rock video on how not to get your ass kicked by the police.

[UMStan White]

"and here we go"

What Liney should only the racists and Muslim haters be allowed to post? When people post such outragous shit they need to be called out. Ban me if you must, but some posts here have gone way beyond the boundrys of "political discussion". I would think you would want to delete or ban the racists from our group. But that's just me.

[Jeff Buchanan]

"But let's not let this discussion become filled with sweeping generalities."

Oh this thread is long past that point. The racism displayed by posters here is just a snapshot of America. (And yeah OP I am calling you a racist pig. Can there be any doubt?)

"cop killing - that is becoming a core feature of the Civil Rights Movement of our time. Disgraceful."

That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen anyone post here in over ten years. ...... Oh yeah some white guy who has no understanding of what the civil rights movement has been about for the last fifty years.

........ OP posits that America should rid itself of African American people, and no one says a word to him. Perhaps you should be more concerned about what you are doing than what Jesse Jackson is doing.

Obviously an emotional topic ....... I'll close this thread down in a second if this keeps up. There is plenty of room for respectable dialogue here. I'd hate to have that happen. Nothing that anyone posted before these outbursts constitutes personal attacks. The rest is borderline. If you want to shame someone posting something you disagree with or are offended by, show it in a different way than attacking the perosn. Attack the idea ..... I can see a lot of easy ways to do that around here.

[UMStan White]

'the civil rights activism that is out front right now, defining it, is cop killing. "

You show me one quote, one statement, one black leader who has suggested for one minute that the civil rights movement supports cop killings. You can't because none exists. People in this thread have suggested that Jesse Jackson and A lSharpton are gleeful over the rash of cop killings. People in this thread have suggested that the Muslim community in Dearborn is gleeful over the deaths in France, but only behind closed doors. Unsubstantiated racist comments need to be challenged even if they come from people that I have admired and respected.

[UMStan White]

I believe that I have attacked the ideas. I may have pointed out that certain posters have posted a bunch of racist comments but it is their comments I have attacked. If i have called certain posters racist, it isn't a personal attack.It s an attack upon the statements they have made. There is a big difference between that and "personal attacks". Shut the thread down in you must, but know that in doing so you are implicitly acknowledging that your "ideas" are indefensible.

[Dr. Strangelove]

'the civil rights activism that is out front right now, defining it, is cop killing. "

You show me one quote, one statement, one black leader who has suggested for one minute that the civil rights movement supports cop killings. You can't because none exists. People in this thread have suggested that Jesse Jackson and A lSharpton are gleeful over the rash of cop killings. People in this thread have suggested that the Muslim community in Dearborn is gleeful over the deaths in France, but only behind closed doors. Unsubstantiated racist comments need to be challenged even if they come from people that I have admired and respected.

You and I both know that every single time there's a terrorist attack or a cop-killing, there are Muslim/Black leaders that go on national tv and issue a denouncement. But we both know too that there's folks who will ignore or pretend not to hear these messages, who want to paint an entire community with the same stripes.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Fair post, Stan.

How do you define the Civil Rights movement? There are certainly organizations who say they represent it. Many of them. There are also individuals that say they are speaking for it. So, we need to be clear here.

In my view, inciting violence against the police through activism aimed at redressing the perceived grievances of blacks at the hands of the police - state violence - coming from any quarter, any organization or any individual, constitutes the kind of activism that I think most of us agree should be condemned.

I think I've already spoken to how I believe that those that are following the kind of activism above, whether it is intentional or not, are defining the civil rights movement of today.

Do you see this differently?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Reporting that today's shooter was named Gavin Long and weirdly today was his birthday. Like the Dallas guy, he was ex-military. A marine, from what I've read.

[Prime2]

"But let's not let this discussion become filled with sweeping generalities."

Oh this thread is long past that point. The racism displayed by posters here is just a snapshot of America. (And yeah OP I am calling you a racist pig. Can there be any doubt?)

LOL Stan, frankly I could give a flying fuck what your opinions are......pretty much about anything.

BTW I sure as he'll hope you don't know where I live.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/off-duty-cop-missouri-kills-home-invader-argument-black-lives-matter/

DSL, the 911 call was to lure police to the ambush. Domestic black racist terrorist, impossible to decern citizenship based on appearance but do keep going with your programmed narrative.

"The suspect has been identified as a black male named Gavin Eugene Long of Kansas City, Missouri, sources tell CBS News. He was born on July 17, 1987."

[Mike]

The thread is still worth having. This is really the first time things have gotten testy. It will simmer down.

[Wild Hoss]

Everbudy simma don' na!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... If i have called certain posters racist, it isn't a personal attack. It s an attack upon the statements they have made. There is a big difference between that and "personal attacks". Shut the thread down in you must, but know that in doing so you are implicitly acknowledging that your "ideas" are indefensible.

The Thread isn't going anywhere. It's alive and open.

The English language allows for a clear distinction between attacking a poster in this forum, e.g., you are a racist pig, and assailing the idea, e.g. the facts in this post (quote or reference) are erroneous (links in refutation would be nice) and therefore do not support the argument which, IMO, is racist in character.

Note that I did not use the words you or your. No implied or direct characterizations of the poster in a negative way is present. It takes some doing but we are intelligent men capable of attacking an idea respectfully.

It's worth pointing out that nothing OP has posted, as offensive to some that it might be, attacks anyone - well, maybe a slam on Stan but what's new between these two. Besides, OP is famous for launching a grenade into a closed room and watching everyone scurry about and take the bate. So, yeah, don't take it next time.

[Ghengis Jon]

It doesn't look like Fox News vetts it's 'experts' very well.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/17/fox-news-intelligence-expert-lied-about-working-for-the-cia/

[lineygoblue]

"and here we go"

What Liney should only the racists and Muslim haters be allowed to post? When people post such outragous shit they need to be called out. Ban me if you must, but some posts here have gone way beyond the boundrys of "political discussion". I would think you would want to delete or ban the racists from our group. But that's just me.

I'm not the policeman of this thread.

I won't be banning or deleting anything or anyone.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The photograph OP posted isn't of the real shooter. It's just a photo that's one of the first to pop up when you google image 'black guy'. It turns out that when you get most of your news from far right extremist websites, sometimes the info turns out to be inaccurate

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/17/this-isnt-a-photograph-of-the-baton-rouge-police-shooter/