Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Wild Hoss]

Feeling melancholy today...I just heard that a high school classmate of mine committed suicide recently. Hadn?t seen him in years, but we played sports together as kids, and had a friendly air in school. He was popular, smart, athletic. Good second-baseman for our state runner-up team as seniors, and supported local youth baseball for years afterwards until he moved away. Had a great job in IT consulting last I heard from him, in 2011 or so.

Unfortunately, he was also crippled by untreated bi-polar disorder. This disease slowly drove him into isolation, away from friends and family. Cost him a marriage, then a second one to what I am reasonably sure was a mail-order bride. His Facebook feed was mostly arcane, techno-posts. Warning signs.

It culminated in ugly fashion, with recent child prostitution charges that saw him paraded into court on television, and his name splashed across the Metro section of the newspaper. He bonded out, and facing trial, used the opportunity to end his own life. Alone in his home and in despair...as I suspect he spent much of the past five years.

One of our classmates, and a former neighbor his as children, had been in contact with him recently, following the public announcement of charges. She is one of those true angels among us, willing to do that sort of thing when most of us would turn away or condemn. She tried to counsel him to seek help, but he was too far down the path at that point. She told me this morning that she believed even now that he was ?a good kid?. I told her that was probably true, but people have different sides.

Tough to focus this morning...texts and IMs are flying about. But life calls, as always. I thought I?d share though, and maybe offer some perspective as we hack away at each other in here day after day. But by the grace of God go we all, or something like that.

[AlabamAlum]

That's horrible. I've had a friend commit suicide, too. It's hard news to accept.

[hack]

That's awful. Happened to me too. A family friend. Spent a day on the roof of her building in Manhattan contemplating whether to jump or not, then went home to her parents house and a few weeks later did carbon monoxide in the garage while they were out for dinner. Several visuals seared in my brain from that: the wind and rain at the funeral, the look on her father's face when he asked me about her mental state (her and I had just had a big talk), her brother so cool and calm as if he knew it was coming.

[hack]

It's "obvious" or at least "expected" if your familiar with population percentages, police killings percentages, and violent crime/murder percentages.

Well if that data had been processed previously the author wouldn't have needed to do it himself. So I guess he was surprised, and many others might be, but you knew all this already.

[Da Geezer]

. It is obvious to most, as the chart shows, that police are more aggressive with blacks than with whites.

Unless I am reading the chart incorrectly, a white person is more likely to be involved in a police shooting than a black person, at least in the years (2000-2015) covered. It also appears that this was the case prior in 2000. It would be interesting to see the same methodology applied to the years from, say, 1960.

[hack]

I think the number's going to soar if/when the data is replicated after the Ammon Bundy/wildlife refuge incident is factored in.

[Mike]

I think the number's going to soar if/when the data is replicated after the Ammon Bundy/wildlife refuge incident is factored in.

Wish it was higher.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Is it somehow better if police are murdering white people at the same rate as black people? What is your threshold for police murder? 100/yr, 50/yr??

[hack]

Keep your damn government hands off my handouts.

[Mike]

Is it somehow better if police are murdering white people at the same rate as black people? What is your threshold for police murder? 100/yr, 50/yr??

Are you asking me? If so I'm speaking specifically of the Bundy domestic terrorist gang. I also don't view the Alton Sterling shooting as a murder, like most of the police shootings. Sure there a few like the one in SC where the cop shot the guy in the back as he was running away, but it seems like you paint with the same extremely wide brush as the BLM folks.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I consider holding a man down, pinning his arms and legs and shooting him as murder. And I think most people would agree with that.

That said, I was talking to those saying police are as likely to shoot whiteys as black folks. Is that better that police murder whiteys too? It seems to me that the standard should be "police shouldn't murder anyone".

[Mike]

I consider holding a man down, pinning his arms and legs and shooting him as murder. And I think most people would agree with that.

That said, I was talking to those saying police are as likely to shoot whiteys as black folks. Is that better that police murder whiteys too? It seems to me that the standard should be "police shouldn't murder anyone".

Re Alton Sterling: You have a guy who is out on parole for previous gun charges and resisting arrest who has a gun on him. The police are called to investigate. He is uncooperative. The police decide to detain and search him. In the ensuing struggle Sterling's gun becomes visible to the arresting officer who shouts "gun!" to alert his partner to the grave danger. From there it is impossible to see Sterling's right arm in the video. The officer perceived a lethal threat and took action in a split second.

The real issue that nobody wants to talk about is why is a father of five hanging out in front of a liquor store with a gun in his pocket... while on parole?? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

With regard to the data from the Harvard study, it dispels the notion that cops have a hard-on for shooting blacks. There's data out there that indicates a cop is 19 times more likely to be killed by a black person than a white person. Yet cops shoot them at roughly the same rate. Hell, you could argue that the cops should be applauded for their restraint.

[CGVT]

I spent 30 years in the Coast Guard. For the majority of that time I carried a gun and then in my later years qualified and certified the people at my units to carry their guns. I am not saying that I was a cop patrolling the streets, but I boarded a few thousand boats and as Officer in Charge of my stations and Cutter, I was responsible for a few thousand more.

We were trained in the use of force and especially in the use of deadly force. We were trained to always meet deadly force with deadly force, pretty much a no brainer, but we were also trained that to use deadly force there had to be three elements present. Those were, opportunity, jeopardy and intent.

In the shootings last week even though the opportunity and jeopardy were there, I fail to see the intent. In our training, just reaching for a weapon was not good enough, there had to be clear intent to use the weapon before deadly force was authorized.

Different forces and agencies may have other standards, but in my view these shootings certainly were not justified

[Mike]

The one in Minny looks way worse than the Sterling shooting, IMO. Thanks for the perspective, CVGT. I think it can be reasonably, if not successfully, argued that the Alton Sterling shooting had all 3 elements you speak of.

[CGVT]

We were also trained that we had to control the situation. We were the authority and had to maintain that authority throughout the interaction with the public. We were told to use the minimum force necessary to compel compliance. If that meant verbal commands fine, if it meant empty hand control, or intermediate weapons that is what we had to do. We couldn't tell a person what to do then allow them to not do what we say and still be able to maintain a safe environment. I think that this is lost in some of the protests. The very vast majority of the time, if a person, regardless of race, does what the L/E Officer tells him to do, there will be no altercation.