Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Da Geezer]

Platte River, Entropy?

[entropy]

geezer.. yep

[Da Geezer]

Stan: The best reporting of the initial exchange that I have found is the following from the Orlando Sentinel.

An off-duty Orlando Police Department officer in the nightclub's parking lot hears shots fired and sees Omar Mateen near the entrance. They exchange fire, but the officer realizes he is "outgunned" and retreats to call for backup. Mateen goes inside.

I have felt the coverage of that particular event has been limited.

Hack said:

The vigilante defender thing strikes me as an overgrown GI Joe fantasy. Entirely in the realm of possibility at this point. Of course with shootings so frequent you, you'd think just by law of averages it would happen.

(italics mine)

exactly, The law of averages doesn't hold because shooters are choosing gun-free zones.

[hack]

yeah but they're not. We're beyond the schools-only era.

[hack]

An off-duty Orlando Police Department officer in the nightclub's parking lot hears shots fired and sees Omar Mateen near the entrance. They exchange fire, but the officer realizes he is "outgunned" and retreats to call for backup. Mateen goes inside.

So someone highly trained and who handles a weapon on a daily basis can't manage what, in theory, some of you think an average person could on a regular basis.

[Da Geezer]

Jon said:

This sort of crap is why so many people do not trust law enforcement or the gov't. Myself included. I want all the information so I can make an informed decision concerning future safety or even just an opinion. I don't need clowns telling me they know best, just trust them.

The reason that AG Lynch gave for redacting any reference to Islam in the tapes was to avoid offending Muslims. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play. Why do I believe that the full transcript of a white racist shooting up a gay bar would be released?

[Da Geezer]

yeah but they're not. We're beyond the schools-only era.

OK, so tell me about the mass shootings that happened in an area where guns were allowed.

[Da Geezer]

wait a minute, I found an instance of mass killing (more than 4) in a "gun allowed" zone

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJFAvA-ZUE"]Dr. Suzanna Hupp Testimony Before Congress on the 2nd Amendment - YouTube[/ame]

[Da Geezer]

hey Hack, the bookies have the "stay" probability at 83% this am. Looks like those pound-denominated invoices are gaining value.

[hack]

Thanks! I'm due for a currency win or two. Been on the losing end of quite a few.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting. Here's an archive. Which is a commentary on its own.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Jon said:

The reason that AG Lynch gave for redacting any reference to Islam in the tapes was to avoid offending Muslims. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play. Why do I believe that the full transcript of a white racist shooting up a gay bar would be released?

I agree with this. Moreover, the release of the transcript is a small detail that has little bearing on the issues at hand:

(1) I'd argue that the Orlando authorities are not getting enough scrutiny. Late and/or ineffective engagement of the shooter. Hostage negotiations? For what? The guy is an active shooter from every piece of information coming out of the scene as far as we know.

Questions to ask: Are we going to have upwards of 50 morts while we negotiate or something less than that if we go in now and apprehend or kill the shooter? Someone needs to be held accountable for what appears to be a serious error in judgement.

(2) What are the facts regarding pre-incident information that was allegedly provided to authorities, including the FBI from at least two sources I know off (a. someone alerted local authorities that Mateen had bought a large quantity of ammunition, b. an FFL alerted the FBI when Mateen made an inquiry about body armor).

If these allegations are substantiated people who should have acted should be held accountable.

(3) What would the implications on the end result of the shooting (100s killed or wounded) have been if the club had allowed patrons to carry weapons into the club?

I have serious doubts this would have made a difference (and so does the NRA following Trump's endorsement of this policy) and complicates the situation immensely if, in my opinion, the authorities had gone right in and taken Mateen out like they probably should have. The reason: One Active Shooter as the target instead of multiple people shooting and potentially becoming victims of friendly fire.

(4) Are we at a tipping point (or is it an over-reaction) to substantially tighten the means by which a firearm can be obtained.

(a.) To identify crazies and terrorists intent on committing a crime with a firearm by increasing surveillance and profiling and to what extent? (b.) To identify and close the loopholes associated with the purchase of firearms without back ground checks (e.g. gun show sales that somehow escape this requirement). (c) To take substantive steps to improve coordination and plans of action between authorities in receipt of such information and/or have responsibility to act on it.

(5) The black market is going to be another problem that has to get addressed but it is complicated one ..... small steps. Tackle the legal market - the place where all the shooters carrying out mass shootings have obtained their weapons as far as I know - and worry about this problem separately if not concurrently.

[Da Geezer]

I didn't hear what Trump said or what the NRA said. Any link? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'd just like to know.

I think it is clear that the authorities should have gone in earlier, but we now know that Mateen had no bomb. In real time, when making the decision, I'm sure that was a factor.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump fired Lewandowski today...wow...well deserved months ago, but the campaign has been increasingly exposed as a trainwreck the past couple weeks.

[Dr. Strangelove]

On another note: How bout them Cavs???

[Da Geezer]

I favor profiling. I said that last week, or at least before Trump came out for it. Now it will be ridiculed.

In my lifetime, one of the worst things to happen to the US is the concept of "fair". We have become a society obsessed with ever more, and more specific rules trying to achieve "fairness". For example, Steve Hayes, a conservative editor, landed on the no-fly list because he took a one-way trip to Istambul. It finally took an appeal to Jeh Johnson to get off the list. "Fairness" leads to the creation of rules that are not prejudicial, like ". . . all persons who take a one-way trip to an Arab/middle eastern/Muslim country shall be included . . ." There is a book by Philip Howard called The Death of Common Sense in America that hits this issue on the nose.

Why can't we at least say that males of middle eastern heritage, age 20-35, need more intense scrutiny than others? Why is anyone looking for body armor in the first place? Could a gun dealer perhaps contact the local police if he thinks that something is amiss without being called a bigot and sued by the DoJ?