Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

you have to hold it constant for comparisons.. you have to put a stake in the ground. If you want to use Hillary, that is fine. I've kept it constant with Bill. It's also the point where I feel the latest significant shift in politics occurred... and yes, they have happened before, but 1892 isn't as relevant to us today.

Yeah, so...I said Hillary is Middle Left. No comparison. Just IS.

You said no she isn't...you compared here to Bill. Fine. If you want to compare her Bill then we can hold everything static and she's more left than him...she's always waaaaay left of every D president ever.

My statement was in the here and now. A comparison to Bill Clinton (or anyone from the past) is an exercise in esoteric irrelevance for that point -- but, heh, ideally suited for an internet message board.

[entropy]

[entropy]

talent.. I'm not sure society has moved as left as you think/suggest. If she is more left than any D president ever, she can't be middle left. The US has moved left on social issues such as gay marriage and transgender rights, but I don't think it's moved left at all on the economy or things like military spending.

jmo..

[Wild Hoss]

And shit, Trump is arguably middle-middle. He's way right on some shit and middle left on others

In my view that doesn't balance out into being Middle-Middle though...that's an extremist. One that is totally unanchored at that.

[iam416]

talent.. I'm not sure society has moved as left as you think/suggest. If she is more left than any D president ever, she can't be middle left. The US has moved left on social issues such as gay marriage and transgender rights, but I don't think it's moved left at all on the economy or things like military spending.

jmo..

That's a fair point. IMO, the country has moved more left, but that's just my opinion.

It's quite possible the country keeps lurching libertarian...siding with Ds on social issues over the long haul and more or less siding with Rs on economic issues over the long haul.

There's no doubt about the former, and I would have been tempted to agree with the latter in 2006, but I think there's been a progressive move on economic issues.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from.

[Hannibal]

The country is lurching leftier and leftier, in no small part due to changing demographics.

With that said, Trump's immigration ideas aren't as far right as the media makes them out to be. This is the phenomenon of preference falsification.

[iam416]

In my view that doesn't balance out into being Middle-Middle though...that's an extremist. One that is totally unanchored at that.

I don't think an extreme position or two poisons the well. I still look at it in the totality.

I'm not even sure some of his extreme positions are as extreme as one would think.

YMMV...and does....

[Wild Hoss]

Stop making sense. You'll never have a future in politics.

The exploits of my college years killed off any possibility of that. :-D

[entropy]

you inhaled?

[iam416]

With that said, Trump's immigration ideas aren't as far right as the media makes them out to be. This is the phenomenon of preference falsification.

Yeah, I agree with that. "Build the wall" is nonsense. But the "anti-amnesty" stuff isn't extreme at all. I mean if you think we ought to have immigration laws then it can't be lunacy or extremism to enforce them.

I'm not sure that a moratorium on muslim refugees from Syria is extreme, either.

[Hannibal]

"Build the Wall" is more impractical than extreme, and it might not even be impractical. We can't control immigration without a physical barrier and "self deportation" requires massive changes in laws and law enforcement.

[Wild Hoss]

I don't think an extreme position or two poisons the well. I still look at it in the totality.

That POV could lead in some interesting directions...another time perhaps.

The devil is in the details, as always.

[Wild Hoss]

you inhaled?

I ingest, and on occasion, expel.

[Hannibal]

I have said many times -- the country is going left and it is one amnesty bill away from going over the edge forever. Those of you who don't like the two party system -- you're going to like a one party system even worse.

[Hannibal]

Trump isn't center. He is solidly right of center. His slightly Liberal positions have been blown out of proportion by the Ted Cruz, National Review types.