Originally posted by hack
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Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View PostAre progressives in the habit of blaming all Jews everywhere for when Israel commits unjust acts? Or even all Israelis? I don't doubt there are some. I just question your characterization that it's more the rule, rather than the exception.
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Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View PostWhere do you stand on the settlements in the West Bank?
But that doesn't change the fact that in some ways Israel is a purer democracy in some ways than any other country. Citizens can and have sued the IDF. In the wake of the Six-Day War Ha'aretz, the paper of record, said give it back. Israel manages to have a modern and sophisticated civil society and debate despite its geography. And that's with half the damn country brainwashed at yeshivas. So to me in ways Israel is up there with anything else in terms of human achievement toward a just society. In this country, Paris gets attacked and Americans can't handle that as well as Israelis can process rockets landing in their backyards. Go find the equivalent of B'tzelem anywhere else in the Middle East -- give it a try...Last edited by hack; April 30, 2016, 03:10 PM.
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It's pretty hard to start an objective discussion of the Israel-Palestine issue. Passions run high on both sides and most minds remain closed to obvious facts, at least in my experience. The "anti-Semitic" card is a pretty potent weapon used by the Zionist establishment against people in this country who dare to take a critical look at the facts on this issue. They have an extensive Hasbara playbook and are ready to strike any time someone dares question the prevailing narrative.
There is an interesting article about Peter Beinart at the current Mondoweiss website and his struggle with being both a "member of the tribe" while also being willing to criticize obvious facts he learned from a visit to Hebron in the West Bank.
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/04/beinarts-jewish-double-bind-support-oppression-or-youre-out-of-the-family/
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Are progressives in the habit of blaming all Jews everywhere for when Israel commits unjust acts?
Another rather nonresponsive comment.
I don't really care if you want to take issue with what Israel does. There's plenty to take issue with. But apparently you don't have inclination to acknowledge the two very different standards in this country that are applied to comments re jews and comments re muslims.
I don't really care which standard one wants to apply. But be fair.Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.
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The soft bigotry of low expectations. Palestinians cannot be expected to act peacefully, but Israel must be held to a higher standard than any other.Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.
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Agreed, Doc. But the great thing is that the debate is actually happening. When guys like Chomsky and Dershowitz no longer matter -- which seems to be where things are eventually heading -- Beinart and some others will be excellent moderators of this discussion.
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Do you have actual numbers on hate crimes talent to back that assertion from yesterday btw, talent? I'm surprised. Maybe it's that other groups are less likely to report them? Dunno. But that's very interesting and surprising. I know there's still plenty of anti-Semitism in teh country but on the other hand Bernie Sanders hardly ever gets called a Jew. Nobody's made his candidacy about his religion, and that is something to be proud of if you value a post-racial society. I wouldn't have guessed that most hate crimes are still directed at Jews.
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I wonder if that's a matter of reporting. I remember talking to a Muslim lawyer in Detroit a few years back who said his rights-focused cases didn't quite explode after 9-11, b/c a lot of people just wanted to stay under the radar, but that the discrimination was there. Wrongful dismissal type of stuff. Not a direct indicator, but I'm sure you get the point.
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It's a significant difference. That's a lot of wondering.
I wonder if media reporting and lack of media reporting affects public perception causing folks to wonder how the facts could be the facts.Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.
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Since he asked me also...
Where do you stand on the settlements in the West Bank?
By this I mean ending the rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel. The cessation of tunnel building from Gaza and Egyptian Sinai into Israel. The suicide bombing of Israeli civilians, etc. When a Anwar Sadat of the Palestinians says "enough", and makes real attempts to build peace with Israel, I say Israel can keep whatever settlements they want.
Jordan signed a peace treaty with Israel, and the two nations haven't fired a shot in anger at each other in decades. Egypt the same thing. Israel has proven itself to be a reliable partner for peace, yet the Palestinians as a whole, seemingly have no desire for peace.
When Yasser Arafat came to Camp David to meet with Ehud Barak and President Clinton, Arafat was basically given everything he asked for, in turn for signing a peace treaty with Israel. He refused, because part of the deal was, that he would have to declare that Israel was allowed to exist... IN ARABIC. See, little known fact is, that Arafat told his people, that whenever he "spoke in the language of the infidels", they could ignore what he was saying. However, when he "spoke in the language of the prophet", they had to listen. He refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist IN ARABIC, and went home .. and started the "intefada"
So, all stated, it seems to me that the Palestinians want war, more than they want peace. Their terms for peace have basically been that Israel surrender to their terms, and fold as a nation. IMO, that's why we are, where we are today.
Now I agree that Netanyahu is very hawkish in dealing with the Palestinians, but I don't see many doves among Palestinians."in order to lead America you must love America"
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