Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

Sorry to disappoint you but the slogan is ``Make America Great Again'', not``Make America Gay Again''.

[iam416]

DSL:

So you're worried about some kid being forced to use the biologically correct restroom?

And no one has stepped up and answered the issue about showers.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I personally find group showers abhorrent. I don't want to see other people naked, trans or not.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I also invite anyone to tell me where the two people whose pictures I posted should go to the bathroom.

[Dr. Strangelove]

On showers I will largely agree with you.

On restrooms it's not so clear to me. I;m admittedly not familiar with the science behind it. You say "biologically correct", but if the science has advanced enough that biologically speaking the former dude is now more female than male or vice versa, then I don't think that answer's very simple. If the person has had no surgery but just knows "deep down inside" that they are woman, then maybe I agree with you.

But like I said. Under your rules your daughter would still be exposed to the women who are now men. And your son the opposite, obviously. As a parent you're still going to be forced into answering what might be uncomfortable questions, I suppose.

[iam416]

I'm all for a unisex offering. A number of places have something like that. That strikes me as resolving all issues. The 4th Circuit panel said it was discrimination. I disagree.

And if the liberal elite can win this policy debate on the ground, then so be it. I disagree, but it is, as hack noted, a trivial issue both ways. If it's decided by courts, then I'll have a problem mostly because there is no principled way to distinguish bathrooms > showers > sports > whatever.

I object entirely to the smug, wrong characterization as bigoted of those in favor of well-established, reasonable norms. It is SOP for the progressives and I'm no fan.

[iam416]

DSL:

If the person is anatomically correct, then I consider their sex changed to conform to their gender.

[Hannibal]

A sex change doesn't make you anatomically correct either. IMHO SRS is a cruelly exploitative procedure that should be banned.

[Wild Hoss]

A sex change doesn't make you anatomically correct either. IMHO SRS is a cruelly exploitative procedure that should be banned.

...like sitting through a game at the Big House.

hi!

[hodgkal]

Here's a statement that fits with a lot of recent discussion. When I read it I immediately thought of Geezer. It isn't a very encouraging thought but seems pretty close to reality. It comes from Scots Historian Professor Alexander Tyler, circa 1787, Re: The Fall of the Athenian Republic.
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse (generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilization has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.”

[Dr. Strangelove]

There may be some truth in that statement, but there's no evidence Prof. Alexander Tyler ever wrote them. It's quote that been in circulation a very long time and has gotten heavy circulation since the dawn of the internet. This guy tried to research the origins of the quote and his best guess is that it was pieced together from a several authors in the first half of the 20th century, one of whom was President of a cork company in the 40's, not a distinguished Prof from the Enlightenment Era.

http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp

[hodgkal]

Thanks for the background, DSL. I thought this quote sounded familiar when I first came across it. Interesting stats about the states that vote D vs. those that vote R.

Of course it isn't just the poor and lazy who tend to corrupt the system, AKA Mitt Romney's 47%. The "haves" just have more subtle (and effective) ways of gaining money and power. You know, the "job creators". It starts with education. And once they gain some wealth their offspring get comfortable and less ambitious, and on it goes through subsequent generations.

It's dangerous to over-generalize on this topic and I don't want to sound too dogmatic The back and forth in this thread over the past few weeks is what planted all this in my mind.

[Jeff Buchanan]

On transgender issues under discussion here. If you're engaged in this discussion, it might be well worth your time to take a look at the link below. There is a section on bathroom access. To answer Seattle's question, which bathroom should these two (transgender) persons use, it depends on what state you are in.

I started looking for resources to understand the transgender debate after talent's post on the recent 4th Circuit's ruling that would require NC schools to allow access to public bathrooms based on a student's gender identity (not by whether or not the student had undergone SRS). I was seeking an understanding of the ruling as I felt talent's legal position on this ruling was entirely supportable ...... i.e, the ruling is irrational and not based on any facts. That was his point, I believe, and that point got lost in the unfortunate adventure regarding which bathroom straight parents might wish to take their children.

Anyway, I learned a bit ........

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States

[froot loops]

Is Trump the trigger back into bondage?

[Jeff Buchanan]

I don't believe, as you are suggesting Froot, he would be a President anything like the personna he has presented for the primaries. Not to mention I don't think he will be elected even if he is the Republican's nominee at Convention.

I'm also much less concerned with the Republic failing than the quote, presented by Doc Hodgeman, suggests. There's plenty of debate to be had about the desireability and dangers of carrying public debt. It is not anywhere near as straight forward a debate as politicians would lead one to believe.

That issue - public debt - is not in my top five. Changing the Tax code is right up there as is excessive military spending balanced against defending the nation against legitimate threats.

I'm with others here, though, that feel the real action is at the local level. If you want to impact change to things that matter to you, it is in your local and state government that needs to be your focus.