Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

Correct. But that would make you a sexist and participant in the "war" on women.

[Mike]

Yep. And then there's the inconvenient fact that the shit they're trying to pass is already the law of the land!

[iam416]

Correct again!

[Wild Hoss]

The Orwellian part is when the self-evident but politically incorrect truth gets replaced by a politically correct untruth.

Meh. We call that "spin". Its not new, and people do it of their own volition.

[hack]

The problem with the Ds is that they are beholdent to their lockstep voting block--African Americans. So the Ds have to talk AA issues and problems. And they don't do it a way that is particularly uniting with poor white folks. They typically do it a way that pushes them away. Appalachia is a punchline.

Sanders has that potential. He is, afterall, a socialist running in the D primary. However, the constituency he needs to carry are the progressives, and boy do those progressives love them some identity politics. So he's a bit handcuffed.

In theory, his Marxist/income inequality/screw the rich message should transcend race. But he still has to pay homage to it. He also has nearly zero interest in foreign policy and almost no inclination to take the "fears" (legitimate or not) of middle/poor white voters seriously. So, I think he definitely gets some of the poor white folks on board, but I really think he should way better with them.

Bernie is spot-on when he says class is the real issue. Culture wars and patriotism have been a very effective distraction.

[hack]

This is a perfect description of the alleged gender pay gap. Numerous studies (including one by UM) have consistently shown there is no statistical difference once you control for factors like education level and marital status. Yet every time a D gets behind a podium they bang away about how women only make 72 cents on the dollar. It drives me nuts that they are never called on it.

I didn't know! Where's a good executive summary?

[Wild Hoss]

Circling back to the ME...how many of us here would be willing to extricate ourselves completely from the region, even if it meant surrendering influence to Russia, Iran or another power?

[iam416]

Bernie is spot-on when he says class is the real issue. Culture wars and patriotism have been a very effective distraction.

That's an honest, real discussion. I disagree almost entirely with Sanders on the issue, but I certainly don't fault him for raising it and appreciate that it's a very real issue for a lot of people. But, as you note, his particular message of income inequality has not gained much traction. Granted, it's still ahead of the likes of climate change, but it's way behind race (in his own party--well, the Ds); national security (more general); and other takes on the economy.

[hack]

I think that's gonna take a lot of time. He's attacking the beast right where it had built up its strongest defenses. OWS made him possible. He might make the next step possible.

[Wild Hoss]

It's not Orwellian in the sense that the Government is not doing it. I suppose that makes it not Orwellian. Heh. However, how many pitchfork examples do you want me to post about individuals losing their job to the "outrage" crowd? Those are ample.

And, I suppose if you wanted to consider Universities as arms of the Government -- and public universities are -- then you do get into some Orwellian shit.

There's no doubt that we live in the "Boycott! Era" but that's a symptom of mass communication, not some nefarious change in human behavior. Americans are the same nosy, judgmental pricks we've always been...but today we can communicate with thousands upon thousands of like-minded nosy, judgmental pricks instantaneously and whip up our frenzy 24-7.

Orwelliamism's got nothing to do it; its exactly the opposite.

[iam416]

I wouldn't say it's exactly the opposite. Conforming opinions through outrage produces the same ends. When it's done through a governmental body, say a public University, it's a lot closer than you think.

I understand the broader concept of Orwellian -- it's very fundamentally State-driven. I believe I noted that. And I understand that the silencing of opposing view via twitter and other nonsense is an exercise of freedom. But I think the effort to conform thought and language has at its core Orwellian aspects. And that's what they're doing whether it's through OUTRAGE!!! or University speech codes.

But, I reckon we'll just disagree on that.

[hodgkal]

Saw Sanders on Morning Joe this morning. The hosts, based on body language, appeared to be positively impressed - even Joe himself. Just an impression. And Sanders' wife was really impressive and articulate. Many don't agree with Sanders but at least he comes across as authentic, unlike his Democratic rival.

I fear I'll be stuck choosing between one of the R's (all bad in varying degrees IMO) and Hillary. Worst of both worlds. Whatever happened to those "East Coast" "moderate" Republicans that I grew up with?

Looking back I can see now that electing Obama further polarized this country and stoked a lot of suppressed racism. But the polarization was well underway long before Obama or GWB.

[entropy]

hodgkal... they still exist, just can't get through the primaries.

[Wild Hoss]

I wouldn't say it's exactly the opposite. Conforming opinions through outrage produces the same ends. When it's done through a governmental body, say a public University, it's a lot closer than you think.

I understand the broader concept of Orwellian -- it's very fundamentally State-driven. I believe I noted that. And I understand that the silencing of opposing view via twitter and other nonsense is an exercise of freedom. But I think the effort to conform thought and language has at its core Orwellian aspects. And that's what they're doing whether it's through OUTRAGE!!! or University speech codes.

But, I reckon we'll just disagree on that.

Maybe at its core, Orwellian thought has humanist aspects? I suspect human behavior predates George. ;)

Definitions and causes aside, I think we agree that broader civic discourse has gotten uglier of late, and shows little sign of improving. The new normal.

Yay.

[Hannibal]

There's no doubt that we live in the "Boycott! Era" but that's a symptom of mass communication.

No, it isn't. It's a symptom of political correctness, which traces its roots to Marxism in academia.