Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

This a link to the NYT article on the Fryer Study: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/up...ings.html?_r=0

This is a link for the actual paper: http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

If you're really interested in the topic, I'd recommend reading the paper.

AAs are roughly 20% more likely to experience some use of force than Whites, but there is no difference use of lethal force. The paper explains why it believes this is true. It finds the latter surprising, and the former important. I like it's conclusion that what we're really dealing with isn't BLM, but "Black Dignity Matters." YMMV.

[Ghengis Jon]

It’s my observation, and it irritates me to no end, how people will ignore or alter facts in these so-called national incidents. I have a BLM proponent at the office who currently isn’t speaking to me because I refuse to “see the bigger picture”. A lunch hour discussion commenced about the BLM. Trayvon Martin was held up as the genesis for the movement. I am of the humble opinion that Trayvon was at least 50% responsible for his own death. The evidence showed that Trayvon had effectively ‘lost’ Zimmerman. Z had turned around and was returning to his vehicle when Martin doubled back and initiated an assault that led to his death. I’m sorry, if you are straddling me, pinning me down and punching my head into the concrete sidewalk MMA style, I will shoot you in the chest without hesitation.

Should Zimmerman have followed Martin without cause? No. Should Zimmerman have gotten out of his vehicle? No. Should Zimmerman have continued to pursue Martin? No. Did Zimmerman deserve an ass whipping? I won’t argue that he didn’t. But the incident was done (for all practical purposes) when GZ stopped following TM and was returning to his vehicle. TM assumed responsibility for his fate when he consciously hunted down and attacked GZ. It doesn’t matter that he was rightfully upset at being stalked for no good reason. It matters that he initiated a physical assault that was entirely avoidable.

My co-worker demanded to know what TM did to warrant execution. My response was what warranted an escalation to violence upon someone leaving the area? You never know who you are facing. I don’t participate in any neighborhood watch. I don’t follow someone around the neighborhood because they are unfamiliar to me. And I certainly don’t attack people because I’m offended by their non-violent activities, regardless of how reprehensible I may find those actions. My co-worker wanted to know what I would have done had GZ confronted me in a similar situation. I said that’s hard to say. I practice the Korean martial art Tang Soo Do and am licensed to carry a concealed pistol. I don’t really overly worry about my safety. That being said, the first thing I would do is run away. It is always better to avoid violence, and I am a firm believer that discretion is the better part of valor. Just don’t make the mistake of cornering me.

What began this 3 week now silent treatment is my response to the question, Well what should have TM done? I replied (with a straight face) Why didn’t he take out his cellphone and call the police?

I acknowledge that there are serious policing problems in this country. But when one takes an incident, presents it in a distorted manner to support a specific cause, you are part of the problem. And that shit spirals out of control and some dufus with an agenda takes a leadership role. Facts be damned, reality is what I say it is. It seems that some people have a perverse enjoyment of making a tragedy into a TRAGEDY.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump likely broke the law by using money from his "charity" to settle personal lawsuits (at least $258K worth). But will anyone care?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-used-258000-from-his-charity-to-settle-legal-problems/2016/09/20/adc88f9c-7d11-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html

[Da Geezer]

hack:

I don't see how it shoves anyone's argument back at them. The study confirms the BLM claim of systemic and institutional racism.

talent response:

I reject BLM because I find them remarkably dishonest. I reject BLM because they are not interested in a real discussion. I reject BLM based on some of their ridiculous demands/principles.

hack, don't you think BLM would be better served if they would do away with the "hands up, don't shoot" and "pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon.."?

And for that matter, why don't they acknowledge their originating incident was a black strong-arm robber being accosted by a police officer and then attacking the officer. That is what actually happened in Furgeson. Yet this is the same group that shouts down anyone who has the temerity to say "all lives matter.." BLM is a racist group selling a false narrative. Far better to discuss the Harvard study in reasoned terms, but that is not the way Obama operates. If Obama simply stated the facts of the study, and also the facts of Furgeson, the country would be having an honest debate. Instead, the President embraces BLM, invites them to the white house, and lends support to their agenda.

I agree with Jon above. Where is the rational analysis of the fault that the black person may or may not have in a given situation? Jon is absolutely correct in saying that everyone has the duty to walk away if possible. But, keep in mind that it is the policeman's job to be confrontational. That is the reason that the vast majority of citizens give the benefit of the doubt to the police. That is not the way BLM views anything.

[entropy]

Trump likely broke the law by using money from his "charity" to settle personal lawsuits (at least $258K worth). But will anyone care?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...dc7_story.html

I do.. Dems and republicans are the same


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[Dr. Strangelove]

hack:

talent response:

hack, don't you think BLM would be better served if they would do away with the "hands up, don't shoot" and "pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon.."?

And for that matter, why don't they acknowledge their originating incident was a black strong-arm robber being accosted by a police officer and then attacking the officer. That is what actually happened in Furgeson. Yet this is the same group that shouts down anyone who has the temerity to say "all lives matter.." BLM is a racist group selling a false narrative. Far better to discuss the Harvard study in reasoned terms, but that is not the way Obama operates. If Obama simply stated the facts of the study, and also the facts of Furgeson, the country would be having an honest debate. Instead, the President embraces BLM, invites them to the white house, and lends support to their agenda.

I agree with Jon above. Where is the rational analysis of the fault that the black person may or may not have in a given situation? Jon is absolutely correct in saying that everyone has the duty to walk away if possible. But, keep in mind that it is the policeman's job to be confrontational. That is the reason that the vast majority of citizens give the benefit of the doubt to the police. That is not the way BLM views anything.

Not sure what you mean by 'confrontational'. If anything I think cops should be trying to calm situations down, not the opposite.

As for benefit of the doubt...I give them that, but clearly not to the same degree as everyone around here, and definitely not 100x greater than the normal citizen. I'm not in the camp that believes "disobey an officer and anything that happens to you after that point is 100% your own fault".

Cops fuck up. It's important that we go after the ones that are dirty, enjoy bullying people, or are simply inept. No matter how small a % of cops that may be. Because bad cops DO bother me more than anything BLM may chant.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Do you want to know what I infer when I read your one off post? -- Cops kill black folks way more than other folks. And that's just not true. But that's the path the activist side has chosen to take.

I want an honest discussion, DSL. I want to talk about Tamar Rice and Garner and the poor guy in Tulsa and, more importantly, how and where the PD can perform better. I do not want to hear about Gray or Ferguson or the guy in Milwaukee or the kid in Columbus the other day. Equating them all, IMO, is dishonest and spoils the message for me.

The larger conversation about policing, violence and poverty has to be uncomfortable BOTH ways. It has to involve acknowledgement of police failures and it has to involve community accountability. It has to involve an examination of "broken windows" policing vs "ACLU" policing (Chicago this year) and everything in between. I'm all for that discussion. I'm all for police accountability.

I reject BLM because I find them remarkably dishonest. I reject BLM because they are not interested in a real discussion. I reject BLM based on some of their ridiculous demands/principles.

However, rejecting BLM doesn't mean I reject honest discussion and prudent policy decisions to remediate a proven problem.

We will never agree, and that's fine. I don't think of you as a BLM activist, though it's clear your sympathetic to the movement. And that's no problem. Fundamental disagreement isn't a bad thing.

I don't think BLM is the monolithic entity you're painting it as either. Just as one small example, a bunch of their protesters were hugging cops and posing for photos with them right before the Dallas shootings happened. Reading this forum it would seem that BLM is instead made up of petulant Eldridge Cleavers, wearing black berets and cruising neighborhoods for cops to assassinate.

You say BLM isn't interested in honest debate. I think a lot of the people who reflexively defend the police aren't much interested in debate either. We'll probably keep disagreeing about that.

[froot loops]

It is easier to say walk away if you deal with a police officer once in a blue moon. If you have been pulled over 30 times like Castillo had in, the benefit of the doubt is going to be a lot smaller.

I think the use of that Harvard study is a good way to discard some genuine concerns.

[iam416]

I think a lot of the people who reflexively defend the police aren't much interested in debate either.

I agree with this.

I don't think BLM is the monolithic entity

I disagree with this. It's a defined entity with "guiding principles": http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

I don't think all protesters are BLM, obviously. But BLM is defined enough for me. It may be akin to the R or D party with "members" sympathetic to more of its platform than not, but as an organization, it's well-defined.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Shut the fuck up.

[entropy]

Great story out of Novi..

http://www.clickondetroit.com/community/novi-water-boy-scores-touchdown-of-a-lifetime

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[Dr. Strangelove]

Seems that the UN is officially blaming an airstrike for attacking their convoy and killing almost two dozen Red Cross workers in Aleppo. Pretty much leaves only Assad or Russia to blame. And naturally they are both in full-blown deny mode.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Donald Trump Jr's Skittles controversy...it's off on a tangent, but ironic that the man who took the photograph of the bowl of Skittles (which was used without permission) is a refugee himself

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37421886

[UMStan White]

Regardless of who wins the election we will see history being made. If Hillary wins she will be the first female president. If Trump wins it will be the first time a billionaire moved into public housing vacated by a black family.

[hack]

I reject BLM because I find them remarkably dishonest. I reject BLM because they are not interested in a real discussion. I reject BLM based on some of their ridiculous demands/principles.

However, rejecting BLM doesn't mean I reject honest discussion and prudent policy decisions to remediate a proven problem.

OK, but how does that jive with ``here's a study that proves BLM right in every way but one, which I'm cherry-picking here to say they are wrong''?

That sort of tactically selective approach doesn't seem like honest discussion or a basis for sound policy. It sounds like the other side of the coin, really.