Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

Every Ann Coulter tweet in which she insists Trump will never pivot on immigration and push amnesty (guess what? she was wrong)

http://therightscoop.com/here-are-all-of-ann-coulters-tweets-saying-trump-will-never-go-pro-amnesty-he-just-did/

[Dr. Strangelove]

Kellyanne Conway thought Trump was a piece of shit just a month or two ago. Now she runs his campaign.

http://therightscoop.com/people-are-posting-all-the-terrible-things-kellyanne-conway-said-about-trump-just-weeks-ago/

[Mike]

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/b...gs-safe-spaces

Very proud to see this...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hell yes.

[lineygoblue]

Maybe there's some hope after all

[Ghengis Jon]

OK, will do. Amen to that.

I wonder about all the hating that goes on around here toward the rich folks and their private schools. What rich folks do is they pay high property taxes, some of which goes to public education. But some place their kids in private schools that probably give a superior education (if young Richie never has to deal with regular folks, that is) and where they can meet someone of their social status. The rich pay in full for the private schools and they make no demands of a public system which they help pay for. My sainted father promised me that this would all work itself out ("Overalls to Overalls in three generations. . . ."), but I'm not so sure.

That is probably the most hallucinatory statement that has been posted here in a long, long time. Hating of 'rich folk'? Define rich folk. 6 figure household income? Multiple homes? Careers in medicine, engineering or law? Extensive world travel? That's a significant number of the posters here. Yeah, we pay high taxes, both property and income. But thats part of being in America. Do I vote conservative so that my taxes can go down? Hell no. There are far too many things in life more important than the blind accumulation of money or the payment of taxes. Paying taxes is like cable TV, you buy a package that has certain services. You may may not use or want all the channels, but you pay for them all as part of the deal.

Some of my 'rich' friends commented about vouchers when I was shopping private high schools. Would I want a voucher? No. Sure I'll take free money, but not at the expense of public schools. I decline a voucher if it takes money from the locals. Thats called social responsibility. Fellowship of mankind. Doing the right thing. That sort. Those who take the attitude that I want my tax dollars in voucher form so I can knowingly deprive others for my own benefit are simply reprehensible greed heads, imo.

Your best line, "The rich pay in full for the private schools and they make no demands of a public system which they help pay for," belongs on Comedy Central. Many of the 'rich' want vouchers so that they don't have to pay for public schools, otherwise they wouldn't want vouchers. But I am 'rich', I pay for a private school, and I have no desire to deprive the local school system of dollars that will adversely affect my neighbors' children.

Would I like things run differently? Yeah. But do I want bad schools to have their lifeblood choked off because inept education boards fail to properly run their schools sytems? No. I want the schools to be fixed. But to blame taxes and unions simply indicates a superficial understanding of the issues. If you truly have 16 years experience and yet maintain such opinions, I can only shake my head.

[UMStan White]

Couldn't have said it better myself Jon. Selfish greed prevents him from understanding the real issues facing others. Charter schools and net tax voters only need apply!

[Hannibal]

Similarly, many universities are creating “safe spaces” where students can relax free from ideas that might be stressful or anxiety-inducing. Among these is Brown University, which last year created a room “with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies” because a debate on sexual assault was taking place on campus.

From the article that Entropy provided.

[Wild Hoss]

First...that's just fucking stupid, conceptually. Second...none of the college's I attended ever bought me cookies, so I am pissed about that on principle.

Play-Doh and coloring books were standard issue for enrollees Iowa though...so I heard.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[iam416]

Would I want a voucher? No. Sure I'll take free money, but not at the expense of public schools. I decline a voucher if it takes money from the locals. Thats called social responsibility. Fellowship of mankind. Doing the right thing. That sort. Those who take the attitude that I want my tax dollars in voucher form so I can knowingly deprive others for my own benefit are simply reprehensible greed heads, imo.

Lowest common denominator wins. Yeah, you can send your kid to absolutely shitty public school or use a voucher or open enrollment to attend a better school. Sorry, you live in a shitty part of town so your social contract says you're fucked. BTW, we don't have any real way to fix the schools, so deal with it. That's fucking genius.

The LCD is also, IMO, a problem in the "No Child Left Behind" era. We'd rather make sure all children are at least remedial than actually teach smart kids. And, obviously, the former is asymptotal and thus illusory.

Instead the answer is always SPEND MORE MONEY.

I think Froot raised the issue of "per pupil expenditures" and how you have to be careful with them. Fortunately, Ohio breaks it down into numerous categories including "Instructional" spending and "Pupil Support" spending.

Out of over 600 school districts:

Instruction Spending:

8. Cleveland City
10. Youngstown City
12. East Cleveland City
29. Akron City
37. Columbus City
44. Cincinnati City

For Pupil Support:

11. Columbus City
12. Youngstown City
31. Cincinnati City
40. East Cleveland City
68. Akron City
92. Cleveland City

In the County I grew up in:

Instructional:

Youngstown: 8351
My Alma Mater: 5773

Pupil Support:

Youngstown City: 1839
My Alma Mater: 749

Total: 10,200 vs 6400 per pupil on specific pupil-related expenses. They also spend more on other categories. And, again, there is absolutely zero question in anyone's mind which school has better outcomes, nor is it even remotely close.

I'm certain I can do the same comparisons for every county with a major urban school system. So, you'll excuse me if I'm suspicious of the "MORE MONEY!!!!" reasoning to "fix" blighted districts.

Incidentally, the lowest Instructional Costs and Pupil Supports are uniformly in rural/small districts.

[iam416]

Article on Zuckerburg's $100M donation (plus another $100M in matching) to Newark Schools: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.06080434066f

Charters, which received about $60 million of the philanthropy, now serve 30 percent of the district’s students, and families are clamoring to enroll their children.

The reasons are obvious. Unencumbered by bureaucracy and legacy labor costs, charters can devote far more resources to students, providing the kind of wraparound services that students like Beyah need.

An analysis by Advocates for Children of New Jersey noted “a substantial and persistent achievement gap” between students at charter and traditional public schools: “For example, while 71 percent of charter school students in Newark passed third-grade language arts tests in 2013-14 — higher than the state average of 66 percent — only 41 percent of students in Newark traditional public schools passed those tests.”

There are other articles out there that go into more detail about the challenges of "fixing" Newark City Schools. But 2 of the things Zuckerberg wanted to do with his money was renegotiated teacher contracts -- which proved extremely difficult -- and fund charter schools.

It should also be noted that he wasn't merely trying to "fix" Newark, but rather he is trying to come up with a general approach to repairing the urban school system. He has recently made a similar donation to San Francisco city schools, though I can't imagine those schools are in the same zip code of awful as Newark. Anywho, it's clear he views charter schools as part of the solution -- and I certainly don't consider him a conservative in any way, shape or form. I view him, in this instance, as a genuine do-gooder looking for the best way to fix something he considers important.

[froot loops]

It becomes a negative feedback loop was my point, I can't speak to other cities and districts other than what I know about DPS. People have left that school system in droves for charter schools and private schools, it has hollowed out the student base. The number I read was over a decade they've lost 100 thousand students and currently have 47k. You reach a point where you can't meet payroll and have to float more bonds. But you still have forty seven thousand students and 500 million dollars in liabilities.

What do you do with the leftovers?

[iam416]

I don't think the answer is EVER to make sure everyone is equally miserable.

What do you do with the "leftovers"? Educate them as you can. Spend a commensurate amount of money on them, but recognize that your outcomes aren't going to be good. The answer is NOT to throw dump trucks of money at them because it's virtually pointless.

My position is remarkably clear:

Assumption: Urban schools aren't going to see any real improvement in outcome with realistically available increased spending -- I'm sure a trillion dollars per pupil would yield benefits, but that's not realistic. We're talking possibilities that are within the "fat part" of the bell curve.

Basis: (Objective) - comparison of per pupil spending in Ohio; studies that show outcomes based on parental involvement. (Subjective) - belief that educational outcomes are symptomatic of far greater institutional problems.

Conclusion: Help as many as you can in as many different ways as you can. Do something, not nothing. The reality is that Cleveland City Schools aren't ever going to be particularly good. That's not changing no matter how much money you throw at them. Providing alternatives -- so long as they are absolutely accountable -- is a viable PART of a fix to improve overall outcomes.

If you disagree with my assumptions, then that's fine. If you think gads of money will "fix" the districts, cool. I disagree for reasons stated. But if you agree with my assumption, I think the conclusion is obvious.

[froot loops]

I'm talking specifically about DPS, educate them the best you can is not a real solution when the cash flow problems are so dire that they could cease to exist as an entiity. And make no mistake, the cash flow problems are the direct result of charter schools and/or school of choice.

When you have 500 million dollars of liabilities that's scads of money.

[iam416]

Well, I can't speak to the uniquely awful politics of Detroit. It's a unicorn.

I've been rather clear that my positions are macro. If you have no thoughts on the macro position but only care about the anecdotal DPS then there's nothing to talk about. I don't much care about trying to catch a unicorn. Makes for bad policy.

[Da Geezer]

Talent said:

......(Subjective) - belief that educational outcomes are symptomatic of far greater institutional problems.....

Your whole analysis is good, and this statement is excellent. You have mentioned having schools of choice administered in such a way that parents of kids in awful schools have the ability to choose schools outside their governmentally assigned district. That should be a goal.

institutional issues (other than the breakup of the family structure within poor urban areas, which I think most would concede is the largest and most intractable problem we face):

Teacher Tenure (the linchpin of the whole miserable system. Please note that none of the leftists present in any way offer a defense of tenure).

Teacher Unions' control of expenditures, particularly on defined-benefit pensions which are now at 31% of base in government schools.

Corruption (in Detroit this takes the form of the highest paid teachers and administrators in the US)

suggestions:

1. Eliminate tenure as a "combination in restraint of trade". This one step would have a marked beneficial result over time.
2. Ban unionization of teachers, and all public sector unions for that matter. They finance and elect the exact people with whom they bargain for contracts.
3. Institute something like Teach for America where proven, excellent, out-of-district teachers agree to a two-year contract for say $ 200,000 per year to teach in the worst schools. Now the union prohibits this.
4. Merit pay for excellent teachers. For that matter, attack the myth that all teachers who have the same length of service and the same degree are equally competent. We don't make this assumption in any other profession.
5. Use vouchers for transportation only, and have a blanket schools of choice. This will result in substantial overbuilding of plant, but so be it. Froot focuses on the 47k that stayed in the DPS. I focus on the 100k who escaped.
6. Reform the pension system to a defined-contribution system using 401(k): http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21192

OK boys, fire away. I note that many of you have no other solution except spending more money, which is, quite literally, insanity. Please focus on the merits of teacher tenure (if any).