Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[UMStan White]

Geezer where is the empirical evidence that charter schools in Michigan are "run more efficiently" because they "don't have to pay off the unions." What empirical evidence the suggests that charter schools do a better job educating their students?
How many charter schools have failed or been shut down? Are you involved in curriculum development and hiring of staff for all your pet project schools or are you merely an investor who is a union basher?

[CGVT]

Whether we like it or not, there are parents that aren't going to move the kids to better schools, so voucher benefit only those that have parents that care.

That's the whole point. People who care get the good shit and people don't just get shit.

I guess the point is really that the kids, the actual people that need the good shit, can't help that they can't get the good shit.

So fuck 'em

[Mike]

I would reckon they receive adequate education if they actually care. Flint and Detroit public schools have graduation rates in the TEENS. Who's fault is that? The teachers? The union? Not enough $$ being spent? If you compare per pupil spending, the bad inner city schools are usually receiving more $/student. So what's the problem? The problem is deadbeat dads, indifferent parents, single family homes, and a generally disenfranchised population. I don't think if we picked up Ann Arbor Skyline HS and dropped it into the north end of Flint we'd suddenly see a huge increase in academic acheivement among the same students.

[lineygoblue]

I would reckon they receive adequate education if they actually care. Flint and Detroit public schools have graduation rates in the TEENS. Who's fault is that? The teachers? The union? Not enough $$ being spent? If you compare per pupil spending, the bad inner city schools are usually receiving more $/student. So what's the problem? The problem is deadbeat dads, indifferent parents, single family homes, and a generally disenfranchised population. I don't think if we picked up Ann Arbor Skyline HS and dropped it into the north end of Flint we'd suddenly see a huge increase in academic acheivement among the same students.

^5

dang .. you'd put Skyline HS in the north end of Flint? At least blow up the old Flint Central HS and drop Skyline in there .... show a bit of mercy at least ... :-)

[UMStan White]

Geezer, do your pet project schools hire uncertified personnel to teach?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Geezer where is the empirical evidence that charter schools in Michigan are "run more efficiently" because they "don't have to pay off the unions." What empirical evidence the suggests that charter schools do a better job educating their students?
How many charter schools have failed or been shut down? Are you involved in curriculum development and hiring of staff for all your pet project schools or are you merely an investor who is a union basher?

As Talent alluded to, there have been numerous charter schools, at least in Ohio, that have been shut down, failed, or are highly suspected of defrauding the state government.

The State Dept. of Ed did surprise inspection visits to a bunch of Columbus-area charter schools and I think somewhere between 20-33% of them had significantly fewer pupils in attendance than they were claiming to the state in order to receive funding. I suspect any state where the govt takes an extremely hands-off approach (as Ohio previously had been) will find some eyebrow-raising stuff.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Thanks, Jon. Good stuff.

[froot loops]

I would be careful when speaking of how much money goes to each student as a yardstick. There is no guarantee that it gets to the students. And I'm not talking the unions and the administration being crooked. Those are separate issues that may be contributing as well, but some districts are getting crushed by debt payments. DPS is a prime example, it is a failing school district that has had it's problems exacerbated by mounting debt as students pull out. DPS students are allocated 7K per year and 3k of it goes to debt servicing and most of these schools are dilapidated. It's a wonder anyone graduates.

Whe people say you can't solve it with money, you can help a lot if they actually spent a lot more money to get the district out of that hole. It's not going to solve poverty or the lack of parental involvement but these failing school districts do need a lot more resources..

[UMStan White]

Care to respond, Geezer? Tell us all how Jon's experience was atypical while your pet project schools are "outperforming" public schools because his school didn't have to pay off the unions"

[UMStan White]

'And I'm not talking the unions and the administration being crooked. Those are separate issues that may be contributing as well"

Ah yes Fruit. i think you are on to something. Crooked unions.

[froot loops]

I actually meant more about the administration Stan, that was worded poorly. DPS just had 6 principals brought up on fraud charges.

[UMStan White]

Certainly fraudulent administrators are deplorable especially in a struggling school district that lacks basic supplies.

[iam416]

I like Zuckerberg donating something like $100M to Newark City Schools and basically backing out after it proved useless.

The answer is always MORE MONEY! If the metrics show that's probably way wron then one must be careful about the metrics!

Anyway, I can break it down by removing debt, I think, at least in Ohio. But then those numbers would be warned against.

[UMStan White]

Geezer.Is this one of your schools?

Just weeks before the academic year starts, a Detroit charter’s high school is closing, officials said.

The decision to end the high school at University YES Academy, which also has middle and elementary schools, was announced Monday, the Michigan Association of Public School Academies said.

“The students and families at University YES Academy deserved better,” Dan Quisenberry, president of the Lansing-based state charter school association, said in a statement Tuesday. “The timing is terribly unfortunate and should never happen like this now or ever. Informing students and parents just two weeks before the start of classes that their school is closing is something that is totally unacceptable.

“Parents and students have been left scrambling to find a new school. This is unacceptable and we’re ready to do everything we can to help them in that process.”

[iam416]

When it comes to public schools or any government program that isn't working as it should, the answer is always more money, but they never tell you how much. They never say, hey, another $1M and our school will be good. Because we all know that another $1M will produce no real progress and the complain will be "you didn't give us enough money."

Incidentally, the vast majority of public schools in the US are perfectly fine. There are relatively few that are bad. Those schools typically receive gads of funding for their failures. And we're to believe gads more will fix things.