Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

The one thing he refused to do was to confirm that Israel has a right to exist,

Fundamentally, I agree with that and the implications of it involving peace in the ME. But, there are historical accounts where Arab leadership have acknowledged "Israel's Right to Exist." Including leadership within the Palestinian Authority.

International law does not guarantee that right so, there's some word smithing there. Menachem Begun argued that the existence of Israel assures it's right to exist. Most ME scholars believe that is a workable concept. That stance, therefore, has moved the argument by antagonistic Arabs and Fundamental Islamists that Israel is a criminal state, never properly designated a state and is therefor "illegitimate."

That's the current effort on the political front, led by the Mullahs in Iran, to "delegitimize" Israel. Israel's right to exist is fundamentally couched in legal arguments over the legitimacy of the Israeli government. The Palestinian Authority (PA), along with Egypt and Jordan recognize that Israel "legitimately" governs certain lands, excluding those lands occupied in 1967 and the lands of the West Bank and Gaza, these are the lands legitimately governed by the Palestinian Authority. With respect to governance in Gaza, Hamas split with the PA in 2007 over the PA's drift toward moderate Arab states and the west, recognition that Israel legitimately governs certain lands and rejection of strict Islamic fundamentalism. The PA, made up of moderate Islamists, governs the West Bank; Hamas governs Gaza and retains a political presence in the West Bank and Lebanon.

Netanyahu has declared Hamas will not govern Gaza. It boils down to that in the context of what I laid out above. Israel does not have to occupy Gaza and I personally hope it doesn't try. It has to decapitate the Hamas military and political leadership and hopefully Israel has a plan to re-establish and install the PA as the legitimate government in Gaza and go forward from there. Clearly, the ideology embraced by Hamas isn't going to disappear but there are plenty of Palestinians that want peace not Hamas' and Iran's war. Israel and it's allies can leverage that.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I may get to use the Jordan aggrieved/McCarthy cackling pic again later today. Stay tuned!

[crashcourse]

israel missles much like US with pinpoint accuracy--and why would they want to hit a hospital knowing the the "faux outrage" the pro palestinians are going to come up with

versus hamas with their home made rockets who have everything to gain politically sacrificing their own people in a hospital to garner the worlds outrage at israel with biden showing up

gee I wonder what really happened

[Mike]

It's so transparent to anyone with half a brain. Unfortunately, there's a ton of them running around these days.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The “Vote for Gym Jordan or we’ll primary you!!!” pressure campaign has backfired. Oh noes

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/17/conservative-pressure-jordan-speaker-bid-00122089

[Mike]

I wouldn’t mind Chip Roy as Speaker, never been a big Jordan fan.

[Dr. Strangelove]

[Dr. Strangelove]

Boehner and Gingrich agree: fuck Jim Jordan

[Mike]

Really good thread on the hospital strike in Gaza. These guys were able to geo-locate the launch of the rocket barrage and one of them was either struck or self-destructed. The debri fell on the hospital. That rocket alone wouldn’t cause that amount of damage but a stockpile of munitions and fuel would.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Based on photos that have come out today the damage to the hospital is not nearly as bad as they were claiming. The 500 dead figure is almost certainly a lie. The scene presents more evidence that it was a failed Gaza rocket than an Israeli airstrike (which should've left a big crater and would've caused more damage).

[Mike]

The 500 deaths at the hospital story is more dubious by the minute. I can't even find a picture of the damaged hospital, only of burned cars in the parking lot and a small crater in the asphalt that is consistent with a less powerful Hamas rocket as compared to an advanced Israeli munition. This is absolutely absurd.

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-vows-release-evidence-israel-bombed-gaza-hospital-1835720

Watch this 32 second video included in this article.

You may recognize the photo on the right at the beginning of the video. That's one of only 2 pictures I've seen of the actual hospital complex, everything else is random shots of rubble or people being treated at a different nearby hospital. That's the photo that Rashida Tlaib attached to her screed via Twitter. What the video shows is that camera is mounted on the hospital looking OUTWARD away from the hospital toward the fire in the parking lot (beyond the green tile roof).

More info coming out from the Israeli side that include pictures of the hospital that looks undamaged.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-military-says-no-evidence-direct-hit-gaza-hospital-2023-10-18/

Democracy dies in darkness.

[Mike]

It shouldn't be too hard to get some satellite photos of the hospital in it's current state and conclude it wasn't largely destroyed with 500 deaths.

[Hannibal]

You mean people lie about and exaggerate casualties to gain sympathy and support?

*gasp* Why — I’m just shocked!

[THE_WIZARD_]

fuckin' liars

You mean Iran lied about wanting $6B for humanitarian reasons? No f-ing way.

[Hannibal]

Saddam's troops took the babies out of incubators. Hamas soldiers beheaded a bunch of babies and Israel responded with a missile attack on a hospital that killed 500 people. So much bullshit out there mixed in with occasional nuggets of truth.

Neither side is clean.. I don't give a shit about the Palestinians and despite the dishonest propaganda constantly being spewed out, Israel is not our greatest ally and they have never been in the Top 5. It's debateable whether they even an ally at all. I'm sick of this Team America; World Police shit and now here we go again.

PySdNGa.jpg