Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Mike]

Well shit. I'd hate to piss off Kataib Seyyed ol Shohada. I had such high hopes for our relationship.

[Mike]

In all seriousness, though, I'm well past being worried about the reaction of the characters listed by ISW. It's time for them to be worried about the West, the United States in particular. Israel and the U.S. will dictate terms in the sandbox for the immediate time being. If there's one thing we're still really REALLY good at, it's conventional warfare. We don't need to concern ourselves with trying to govern any of those shitholes, just give them a good fucking shit kicking.

If Lebanon wants to get freaky, how well do you think their defenses will stand up to 2 carrier groups off their coast? How soon do you think we can have stealth bombers on station? I have a pretty good idea and it's in the neighborhood of a civilian 911 call. Syria? Same. I hope they do something stupid.

And I'm not talking about conventional boots on the ground. We have a greater amount of firepower floating off their coast than the combined militaries of those countries.

It's not time for nation building, it's time for nation destroying.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Kill 'em all. Kill 'em dead.

[Tom W]

If Lebanon wants to get freaky, how well do you think their defenses will stand up to 2 carrier groups off their coast? How soon do you think we can have stealth bombers on station? I have a pretty good idea and it's in the neighborhood of a civilian 911 call. Syria? Same. I hope they do something stupid.

And I'm not talking about conventional boots on the ground. We have a greater amount of firepower floating off their coast than the combined militaries of those countries.

And let's not forget about the things that aren't so easily seen. The Navy has plenty of submarines, including converted Tridents, all stacked with cruise missiles, just out there, hiding somewhere..

[lineygoblue]

And let's not forget about the things that aren't so easily seen. The Navy has plenty of submarines, including converted Tridents, all stacked with cruise missiles, just out there, hiding somewhere.

This is probably one of the best deterrents that the US has, even when dealing with Russia, China and North Korea. They have no idea where those subs are, and they have no way of finding out. One of those subs alone could kill millions of people in less than an hour. And they can be parked anywhere.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Kill 'em all. Kill 'em dead.

[Mike]

There’s a sub attached to every carrier group so that’s at least 2 in the med, hopefully more, and there’s likely two stealth bombers in the air at all times.

I don’t know the particulars of Iran’s nuclear facilities in terms of vulnerabilities to attack but I’m guessing a dozen bunker busters would do the trick. Refineries would be super easy. I’d give the Israelis first dibs on those then send the Mullahs an invoice.

[Mike]

Israeli Energy Minister. Bravo, sir.

"No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened, and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. Humanitarian for humanitarian. And no one will preach us morals,"

[lineygoblue]

That's the way it should be. Show us your humanitarian actions, and we'll show you ours.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Based on that evacuation order it sounds like the ground invasion begins at midnight, Israel time.

[Mike]

It’s a damn shame that no other Arab countries will allow Palestinians refuge.

[Jeff Buchanan]

It will be interesting to see if the "articulated" threat from Hezbollah materializes in any substantial way. To wit, Hezbollah's "red line" to enter the conflict with Hamas was if Israel invades Gaza. What that precipitates is the opening of a second front. Military analysis I'm reading implies that the IDF will have difficulty fighting on two fronts.

I share Mike's (Wiz's and talent's) wish for exacting revenge through "nation destroying." There's an implication hear that I read into this that the targets for destruction would be the semi-state actors Hamas and Hezbollah and the states of Iran and Syria. Great idea. Would love to see it ...... it simply isn't practical. While US aircraft carriers like T. Roosevelt's :Great White Fleet, is useful as a show of force and, yes, there's a lot of firepower contained in those two CBGs, joining the IAF's missions with two airwings to provide air superiority over the battle space and air to ground support for the Israeli grounds operation in Gaza has it's limits. The most immediate threat to that fire-power is an overwhelming barrage of anti-ship cruise missiles launched from Iranian territory. In late 2020 the Iranians announced the deployment of the Abu Mahdi anti-ship missile with a range of 1000km

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/long-range-anti-ship-missile-enters-iranian-service#:~:text=The%20Abu%20Mahdi%20long%2Drange%2 0anti%2Dship%20missile%20has%20entered,was%20annou nced%20on%2025%20July.

The missile is named after the Iraqi militia commander, IRGC's Major General Qasem Soleimani, killed in a January 2020 US airstrike. CBGs are protected by the Aegis air defense system and additional shorter, close in systems so, there is that. But in other than exercises, the Aegis system has never faced live attacks, in combat, in the volume that I would expect them to be launched. I cannot imagine the negative impact of the loss of a US aircraft carrier to Iranian fires.

Back to the practicality of what would turn out to be an all-out conflict in the broader ME between the US, Israel and Syria, Iran with Russia likely to get involved with Naval and Air forces. What would be the objectives of such an operation? The destruction of Iran, Syria and their proxy militias? One of the certainties of modern warfare is that....." War is a complex social phenomenon that could be considered as a so-called wicked problem, complex and ambiguous. So, what constitutes victory in modern war? The result is at best patchy and probably not very satisfying." I commend this reference to your study so we can all get a better understanding of what your gut wants but has to be contained by the strictures of modern warfare.

https://militairespectator.nl/artikelen/what-constitutes-victory-modern-war

I'll leave it at that for now. Like I said, I share the sentiment here, fuck those bastards but there are practical limits to what can be achieved even with unparalleled military power and the capability to project it possess by the US.

[Tom W]

It’s a damn shame that no other Arab countries will allow Palestinians refuge.

What do you mean? Dearborn has been allowing them for decades.

[iam416]

Buchanan:

To be clear, nation-destroying isn't, practically speaking, possible. Israel is not going to eradicate Gaza and its citizens.

The best Israel can do make clear what the consequences are for these actions and make the consequences sufficient to act as a future deterrent. And I realize you're dealing with religious fanatics in Hamas, but they are also widely supported by the people. You're also dealing with, indirectly-but almost directly, other Palestian leaders and peoples.

As I've said and will continue to say -- there are no good outcomes here. Israel is faced with the question of "our civilians or yours" and that is 100% the doing of Hamas.

And, finally -- not that anyone here other than maybe 1 person doesn't know this -- but the marco questions are this: (1) What would happen if Israel laid down their arms and ceased to defend themselves; and (2) What would happen if the Palestinians laid down their arms and ceased to attack Israel?

(1) Genocide; (2) Peace. This isn't hard.

[Mike]

I’m looking for punitive damages. Set the market rate for the atrocities committed by Hamas and funded by Iran. Open with 1 nuclear program and 2 refineries. If our ships are vulnerable to attack, move them out of range and use subs and stealth bombers.