Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

There may be noting left of the Gaza strip, possibly the West Bank but the terrorists of Hamas and it's leadership, along with the dozen or so Jihadist groups that are semi-state actors, aren't going to just disappear.

[Da Geezer]

Yes. Yom Kippur. 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War.

Jeff: What does FP stand for?

[Whitley]

One cannot really ignore the politics of this. Netanyahu has tried to ignore the Palestinian question and contain it. At the same time the extreme right within Israel has embarked, unrestrained by multiple Israeli governments over the last decade, of expanding housing into disputed territory as a way of edging out Palestinians.

Meanwhile, Iran has embarked on efforts to surround Israel with proxy governments that have armies equipped with Iranian kit. IMO, among others who write about this, western powers that support Israel's right to exist have ignored what amounts to a carefully crafted effort by Fundamental Islamists to plan for the destruction of Israel. Meanwhile, the US in particular, has ignored Iran's contribution to these proxy governments existence and the myriad Jihadist groups they support. Instead, Biden makes deals with them - the last one for a hostage exchange with Iran that provided the funding of what will be a slow strangulation of Israel and western influence in the ME.

It may be too late to counter the Iranian strategy with the only hope of doing so, a strong political and probably military effort by the Saudis. They're in a tough spot however as "brothers" with Islamists whose moderate elements are diminished by violent extremist practitioners of Islam. This crowd unabashedly declare that Israel should not exist and was wrongly bestowed lands belonging to the Palestinians by the US following the end of WWII. They have a point and it forms a rallying cry for Palestinians.

Numerous Human Rights organizations have called what Israel has done to Palestinians in Gaza calling it an open air prison and Israel an apartheid state. I do wonder if this was occuring in another country would or reaction be the same?

I do find this quote by the Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant chilling, " I have ordered a complete siege of the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly."

I have no problem with them going after Hamas fully. There are 2 million Palestinian people living in the Gaza Strip. Pretty sure not all of them are not members of Hamas.

[Mike]

Wasn't it an Israeli holiday?

Yes, it was.

[iam416]

The people sucking Hamas dick and excusing this attack as “Israel was asking for it” can seriously go fuck themselves.

I wonder if that shit happened to anyone other than Jews if so many elitist fucks would be saying they sorta got what was coming.

Fuck. That.

[Dr. Strangelove]

It WAS a holiday but from stuff I have read a significant proportion of the military guarding the Gaza border was transferred instead to the West Bank to guard settlers and new settlements there to make sure THEY were safe for the holiday.

[Whitley]

I'm sure glad The Chairman just gave that peaceful state of Iran billions of dollars....

If you are referring to the oil sold to South Korea, that currently is in an account overseen by the US and according to the NSC spokesperson it is all there because the US has not transferred it. Also the money can only be used for helping out the civilian population (medical supplies and such).

[Mike]

Cool MSNBC talking point, bro! Money isn’t fungible in liberal lala land.

The larger point, of course, is why the fuck were we making deals with Iran to ensure they acquire nuclear capability and billions of dollars? But then again, you might be very pleased with the situation in southern Israel.

[THE_WIZARD_]

If you are referring to the oil sold to South Korea, that currently is in an account overseen by the US and according to the NSC spokesperson it is all there because the US has not transferred it. Also the money can only be used for helping out the civilian population (medical supplies and such).

Uh no. Are u fucking serious? You are seriously dumber than crash.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I think Whitley is fundamentally correct about the disposition of these billions in oil revenues that Biden released. At least that's what is being said about it. I remain skeptical because you just half to be.

As well, there are sympathizers of the Palestinian people's circumstance that are justified in those sympathies (if you've been following this shit storm for as long as I have you'll understand the two sides of this conflict). The reality is, however, that their cause has been co-opted by radical thugs who want to leverage a justifiable cause to then justify their own agendas that have little to do with justice for Palestinians.

It is these rag-head shits that, IMO, are running the show in the sandbox that is the ME. The Mullahs that, not completely unaware, are being pawned by the leaders of these Jihadist movements. These leaders of the multiple semi-state actors are actually calling the shots behind the scenes.

What I find shameful is that the west, who I believe their intelligence services are fully aware of this, pursue deals with the Mullahs. The basis of such FP (for Geezer FP = Foreign Policy) is this ridiculously stupid view that dealing with them as friends and a part of the "Global Village" (Hillary's Term) will secure peace. Pretty obvious all it has done is to facilitate the arming and military operations planning of dangerous Islamic extremists who think it's fine to sortie into Israel and slaughter innocent civilians.

Fuck them. Hunt them down and kill them and I am absolutely positive we know who and where they are. They will, in good time, make errors in judgement that will expose them to lethal strikes ..... and make no mistake these thugs locate their operations and command and control centers in Mosques, schools and hospitals so they can scream war crimes when properly placed ordnance from the IAF blows them the fuck up.

[iam416]

Money is, of course, fungible. But Mike’s larger point is that those that assume Iran will play by rules grossly and fundamentally misunderstand the nature and motivations of that state.

[THE_WIZARD_]

JFC...do you really think a terroristic state i sgoing to play by the rules? JFC...

[THE_WIZARD_]

The bBden Administration got played likefucking fiddle...wrt Iran...JFC they are a fucking abomination with foreign policy...

[THE_WIZARD_]

This is what happens when you play nice with fucking terrorists...fucking idiots...

[Whitley]

I think Whitley is fundamentally correct about the disposition of these billions in oil revenues that Biden released. At least that's what is being said about it. I remain skeptical because you just half to be.

As well, there are sympathizers of the Palestinian people's circumstance that are justified in those sympathies (if you've been following this shit storm for as long as I have you'll understand the two sides of this conflict). The reality is, however, that their cause has been co-opted by radical thugs who want to leverage a justifiable cause to then justify their own agendas that have little to do with justice for Palestinians.

It is these rag-head shits that, IMO, are running the show in the sandbox that is the ME. The Mullahs that, not completely unaware, are being pawned by the leaders of these Jihadist movements. These leaders of the multiple semi-state actors are actually calling the shots behind the scenes.

What I find shameful is that the west, who I believe their intelligence services are fully aware of this, pursue deals with the Mullahs. The basis of such FP (for Geezer FP = Foreign Policy) is this ridiculously stupid view that dealing with them as friends and a part of the "Global Village" (Hillary's Term) will secure peace. Pretty obvious all it has done is to facilitate the arming and military operations planning of dangerous Islamic extremists who think it's fine to sortie into Israel and slaughter innocent civilians.

Fuck them. Hunt them down and kill them and I am absolutely positive we know who and where they are. They will, in good time, make errors in judgement that will expose them to lethal strikes ..... and make no mistake these thugs locate their operations and command and control centers in Mosques, schools and hospitals so they can scream war crimes when properly placed ordnance from the IAF blows them the fuck up.

That is pretty much well said. I would add that UN places to shelter should be off limits. But no matter how good the intelligence agencies are just fighting the present threat that is not a path to reaching peace. It can be part of a multi prong (and likely decades) plan.

The conditions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, for Palestinians, of chronic poverty/massive unemployment, restrictions on movement etc. are a breeding ground for groups like Hamas generation after generation. A 10 year old in the Gaza Strip has lived through 8 major Israeli military responses in their lifetime. Gaza especially seems like a powder keg. The tempeture needs to turn down several dozen degrees there, and when the Israeli Defense Minister calls them "human animals" and says they are going to turn off electricity, water and food spigots to the Gaza Strip that is not helping their cause.

So you are in a chaotic environment with a bunch of people that 1) don't want to be there and 2) have plenty of time to think on things and 3) have their lives tightly regulated and controlled. In that sense it is not unlike a prison (which is apt since multiple human right agencies call Gaza an open air prison). And there are some simple things I learned working almost 2 years in a prison and 5-6 months in a county jail.

The first thing (and this is true everywhere I think) is that every person is going to do what they think is in their own self interest (whether it is or not). If a prisoner thinks it is in their best interest to rob a blind man until he has sight--they will do that. If they think it is in their best interest to do their job to the best of their ability then they will do that.

The second thing is that respect and being polite really does go a long ways. I made a decision before I even stepped foot into the prison that I would have the same temperment every day. I did not care what they did when they committed that crime because who they were then might not be who they are now. And when they worked for me as long as they gave their best effort----that is all I could ask for because I was going to make mistakes and they were going to make mistakes too. The key is to learn from them.

The third thing was that had been thinking on how to "acquire" things from the kitchen for a lot more hours, days, months and years than I had given thought too. Because they had the time to think about it. When you have 40% unemployment in Gaza that is a lot of people having a lot of time to think on things. When you have an occupying military force there--I have to imagine that kind of unemployment is not a good thing.

All of this is a long way of saying while Israel should have a MACRO goal of rooting out Hamas (and other terrorist organizations) in the present it should be done with precision and has minimal non combatant injuries/deaths as possible. Overwhelming force has been the go to response for Israel for a couple decades now it hasn't worked. TBF, the two state solution was rejected and the Palestinian policies after that have been a reflection of that. Though the current prime minister has tacked farther and farther rightward in order to maintain his control over the government. Israel should keep rooting out Hamas anf other organizations but at the same time say they are not going after the Palestinian people themselves(the civilians)

While doing that, on the MICRO level, they should be looking at improving the conditions in Gaza. Just basic stuff at first. Making sure there are enough jobs to significantly reduce the unemployment rate would be a good start. This should be done with the idea that the youngest generation you might have a chance with. Israel has to be better than its enemies that means there are lines you don't cross (now I don't think that will happen).

The reality is that the current situtation with Israel/Gaza and West Bank is not something that can be sustained (on either side) for decades on end. Under the current Israeli government, i think the question is whether they will grind them down slowly or scorch everything. The two state solution is dead. And I think Israel (at least now until the distant horizon) will never go for a one state solution.