Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Da Geezer]

I think there is a middle way to do that while advancing social justice (in its widest application) - not through strictly economic capitalism with its reliance on free markets as a means of doing that (I don't think that works as perfectly as proponents of it, like yourself, it would seem, think it does) and not through democratic socialism that depends on management by the state to do it (we'll all likely agree definitely doesn't work).

If you agree with me that management by the state doesn't work, why do you want the state to provide day care or debt-free college as our next President proposes? Progressives always pay lip service against an overweening state, and then they raise taxes and offer ever more "free stuff".

Man is evil. Power corrupts. I'd be happy to argue either of those sentences with any progressives present. I've met only a handful of statists in my lifetime who actually believe those statements to be untrue. If what you say is actually what you believe, why give more power to an elite few? And Donald Trump is not one bit better when he says he is going to establish a tariff. Trump says he is going to stop crime, "right now". and he applied "right now" to destroying ISIS too. How do you figure he is going to do that...declare war and marshal law at the same time?

Money and power are interchangeable, perhaps not in an exact formula like E=MC(2), but close enough. Trump has acquired money and wants to trade it for power. Hillary has already engaged in several transactions trading power for money. She just wants "more". The only difference between the two is that Hillary has actually traded power for money. Trump merely wants to trade money for power.

I assuredly do not think capitalism "works perfectly". What recommends capitalism as an economic system can be summarized in two sentences: " Man is evil. Power corrupts". And, just for good measure (and to send my friend Hack into a snit), Christianity is the only religious system based on the idea that man is evil. Only one. It is the combination of capitalism and Christianity that made the US exceptional.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Geezer ......

We're going to disagree on assumptions about the world we live in. It's not likely either of us will substantially change our world view.

I respect your positions that are derived from your particular world view but we're probably some distance apart on agreeing on how those of us in the 1% might avoid the potential of the 99% taking up pitchforks.

What I see happening worldwide is a trend toward isolationism and wall building of the well off. A sort of distancing themselves from the ugliness of the rest. I think that is a dangerous approach to take. You may disagree and that's fine.

[Mike]

To me, it's not about party or politics. Trump is a clown. A buffoon. A reality TV star and con-man. That he has made it this far is both frightening and sad. Even if I agreed with every one of his positions, and I do on some, I still wouldn't want him to be president. I also don't want Kanye West as POTUS either and I don't make a distinction between the two. Trump is that bad.

[Wild Hoss]

Agree Mike. I have been developing a healthy streak of isolationism myself for years now, but it more about growing out of the adventurism stuff than sealing ourselves off. Defending our NATO allies would be THE, No. 1 uncrossable line for instance...in lieu of strongarming them for protection money from the Russians.

I mean....Jesus.

[Ghengis Jon]

I also don't want Kanye West as POTUS either and I don't make a distinction between the two.

Now Trump-West would be a ticket straight out of the Twilight Zone. But the entertainment value would have been priceless. Think of the biopic possibilities, calling it Clash of Egos, starring Duane Chapman and Dennis Rodman. Guest starring Madonna as the Hiltron 4000. Could even let the First and Second Bimbos play themselves.

[Dr. Strangelove]

If somebody posted about this already, sorry for the re-post. But last week a federal court struck down North Carolina's new voter registration law, widely regarded as the strictest in the nation. More significantly the court accused North Carolina of deliberately targeting blacks with all the new restrictions including: no sunday voting, mandatory photo id, sharp cuts to early voting. All of the changes made to voting disproportionately affected blacks more than whites.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/29/the-smoking-gun-proving-north-carolina-republicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/

Numerous studies and investigations (by deeply Republican states like Kansas) have uncovered virtually no examples of voter fraud in recent years yet some seem to believe it's occurring by the millions. Kansas in particular conducted a search of 84 million voters across 22 states looking for duplicate registrations. They were able to find just 14 out of 84 million.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/09/7-papers-4-government-inquiries-2-news-investigations-and-1-court-ruling-proving-voter-fraud-is-mostly-a-myth/

[Mike]

That voter ID crap has been a solution without a problem since the get-go. Nice to see the court bat it down.

[CGVT]

That voter ID crap has been a solution without a problem since the get-go. Nice to see the court bat it down.

Much like drug testing for welfare recipients

[Mike]

Yep. Net money loser there. But it allows certain people to feel sanctimonious so that's something, I guess.

[Ghengis Jon]

<cue video clip from The Jerk where Steve Martin proclaims "I'm somebody now!!!">

[Da Geezer]

Numerous studies and investigations (by deeply Republican states like Kansas) have uncovered virtually no examples of voter fraud in recent years yet some seem to believe it's occurring by the millions. Kansas in particular conducted a search of 84 million voters across 22 states looking for duplicate registrations. They were able to find just 14 out of 84 million.

DSL: I'd like to read the article, but it morphs into an ad almost immediately and I am too stupid to get back to the article. Why did Kansas do a search of 84 million voters in 22 states in the first place?

[froot loops]

It is a mystery why African Americans would be so loyal to a party not crafting voter ID laws.

[Da Geezer]

Jeff: What are the assumptions we disagree on?

[Jeff Buchanan]

Jeff: What are the assumptions we disagree on?

In response to your question I'd offer this:

People tend to view the world though different prisms. Some see things in black and white terms, some in more shades of gray. Context is important. If we are talking about ethics, we might see an event in terms of ethical objectivism versus ethical relativism.

To have a reasonable and useful discussion about beliefs, a world view if you will, is nearly impossible in an Internet forum like this.

Another problem I see on Internet forums is the tendency of posters involved in discussing an issue to pigeon hole a poster based on one thing he or she might post. For example, he's a statist or she's a capitalist.

Neither may be true and that goes back to my black and white v. shades of gray point above. Some can reasonably pick and justify a middle road. Some can reasonably justify both absolutism or objectivism (context necessary).

I do think we view the importance of the concept of social responsibility - the ethical framework that suggests that an entity, individuals and organizations, have an obligation to act for the benefit of society at large - differently.

I thought about bringing up Ayn Rand, Marx, Lenin and Engles but, not going there. I'll leave it at that.

[Mike]

Geezer, here is the study from the Kansas Secretry of State.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:O4MXrVTbtxAJ:https://www.supportthevoter.gov/files/2013/09/SOS-Kris-Kobach-PCEA-Presentation.pptx+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.

There is a litany of academic research and government investigations that all point to the same conclusion: In-person voter fraud is a myth.